Troublesome discarnate spirit beings are of little concern to the spiritual searcher. The weak ones are ineffective, the potent and dangerous ones target only particular individuals, not the average spiritual searcher.   

More significant are the live (incarnate) humans who are leading people astray.

Mogen,

I for one would love to hear what you have to say - so long as you tell us what is on your mind.  I don't really mind you quoting Rulof's system or theology, but I am more interested in your own personal thoughts and experiences.  Otherwise, we get sort of a "cut and paste" conversation, where we are being told "this is so because this person (Rulof) says it, and here is the reference." Yawn.

I did in fact say we don't master love and light, because the whole notion of a "master" is the antithesis to what love is all about for me.  Love is, to me, a primal force continually flowing to us that we can allow and flow with or block (as many of us do).  So to become a "master" of love, and a master over others goes against my own experience and pereption of what love is all about.  But hey, that is my take on it. 

If you are a passionate advocate for Rulof's belief system, that is your choice.  But in the forum, I think you'll find many of us are most interested in your own experiences, thoughts and responses - that was what I was trying to get across. 

Ultimately, you will decide if you will contribute or not to the forum.  My own dislike of dogmatic adherence to another's exploration shouldn't dissuade you from speaking your mind.  I like to discuss things and not be told by anyone "this is the structure of the afterlife because so and so says so."  You are welcome to believe so and post to that effect. 

As to Bob's silliness, I read through the lines.  He is perhaps the most ardent supporter of individual choice and free will on the forum.  His philosophy seems to be live and let live.  And he couches much of what he writes in humor - obtuse, silly or otherwise - so I respect where he comes from.  He is not above pointing out what he believes are inconsistecies to any of us when he thinks we are getting too preachy or hlolier-than-thou including many of the most senior members of this forum (including Bruce). 

But don't take any of this stuff personally.  And do stay, if you are inclined to do so.

Matthew

Hello Crossbow.

1796 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2013 at 8:16am:

Roger, I agree.  It is complicated or at the very least complex because there are so many variables.  There are so many choices that are available to an individual at every moment in time and when discussing mental illness, while we are able to list general symptoms, there are so many degrees to these.

Take a sociopath for example, which in my opinion is little understood, but society in general carries a belief that a sociopath is one that has a malicious intent to harm others and that they are evil people.  Certainly this can be the case, but not always.  A sociopath doesn't necessarily have malicious feelings toward others.  In fact, they actually have very little feeling at all for other people and this is why they have a difficult time forming attachments to others and thereby treat others as objects.  The consequence of this behavior can without a doubt be malicious, however a sociopath's intention is not necessarily malicious.  Remember it is our intent beneath an action that determines how our being is changed.  Not the action in and of itself.

Most of us have human feelings/morals that stem from a deep sense of social obligation.  We form emotional attachments easily. While a sociopath is capable of emotion, they do not form attachments in the same way as most of us do.  We don't know if a sociopath is born that way, but research has attributed about half of the cause of sociopathy can be explained through genetic influences and the other half is attributed to a mixture of environmental factors.  So at this current time it appears there are both genetic as well as environmental factors that make up a sociopathic personality.

Some sociopaths can be highly productive members of society, educated, and very charismatic even though they lack empathy for others.  Still they are able to within a small group of family/friends they are capable of forming affectionate, if not loving relationships that may include a moral code within that group.  In society, while the moral code may not be emotionally felt, it can exist as a belief system such as in the teachings of a religion, you shall not steal, murder, lie, etc. that guides them through life within a society.  In this respect, a sociopath may be able to be motivated by a caring/loving intent and thereby change his/her consciousness at the being level in positive ways.  Again, it is our intent that directly affects our consciousness at the being level.

Quote:


To answer your question, if it is true that a sociopath is the result of a combination of genetic and environmental factors, this means that the consciousness he/she was before birth will be the same consciousness after death.  Of course, there may be some modifications made by the individual's intent that motivated his/her choices, but essentially the consciousness could be one that is highly evolved level of being, and chose such a limitation for their ELS learning experience.  A tough choice perhaps, but a thought occurs that someone that has difficulty with attachments may want to have the experience of not having attachments.  LOL... some days I'd like to have the experience of not having attachments!  And, thinking of Don's thread, why wouldn't it be possible that a highly evolved being would choose to incarnate with the intent of evolving/changing genetic code with his/her consciousness in the field, which of course is non-physical?  In a sense, isn't that what Jesus did?

Of course there's the other dangerous sociopathic side of the coin, and every possible scenario in-between, which I won't go into for the sake of brevity.

Kathy

PS  Finally had time to read the rest of this thread:

Hello Crossbow!  Love your post!

Mogenblue, I, too, hope you will stay! 

1796 wrote on Dec 16^th, 2013 at 12:15am:

         Would it be different if we were all gathered together  in the  kitchen or the  living room of your home?

  Re: lust and some of the things Recoverer have been talking about, going by my experiences and guidance, i'm mostly in agreement. 

  But i also agree that it wouldn't be a helpful goal for most to try to "overcome" sex drive, attachment to lust, etc nor that such is necessarily necessary. 

  Too often, repression becomes a part of such a focus and that can be counter productive, or limiting belief systems or habits developed. 

    The way i've come to look at is this.  Sexual energy is both of the earth and of primal consciousness.  Lust, the hormonal drive is the earthly aspect.  The urge to merge with others is the consciousness or spiritual aspect.  I'm not sexually, lustfully attracted to other men, but i've felt the attraction or desire to merge with other men before.  It's an aspect of love. 

  This can be experienced, and "translated" physically via sexual experience with another.  It CAN be a creative, expanding activity.  But how often is more on that level?  In my observation, often the very earthly and slower vibrating (limiting) activities of lust, fear (wanting to be found attractive, material loneliness, seeking fulfillment in another, etc,) are strongly involved with sexual activity. 

   So often, it's more of a mixed bag (certainly, it seems to be rare for it to be fully a freeing and expanding activity).

  But i've been shown that there is another way, some of this has been through direct experience, and some from guidance and intuition. 

  For example, in the relationship of the body to that of consciousness, as T.C. would say, we exist in a focus wherein there are rule sets, set up, a certain kind of structure with it's own innate reactions, relationships, etc, some of which are very probable in nature. 

   Relating this to our bodies, one can think of it in the metaphorical terms of "chakras".  In reality, it relates more to the endocrine glandular hormonal system. 

  Sexual energy as connected to the body is very powerful stuff.  It has a lot of energy potential.  That energy is neither inherently positive or negative, it's just potential, it's "force" so to speak.

   What happens with most, in most cases, is that energy builds up in the body, and either needs a release of some kind, repressed, or can be positively redirected. 

   Release is usually sexually related, and when lust, hormonal drives, with any degree of lack of love is involved, that energy gets dissipated at point of release (usually somewhere within the first 4 main centers) and doesn't create a coherent connection to the other "higher" centers in the body (higher meaning a more expanded activity, or connecting to a more free, Love attuned consciousness and dimension, which actually happen to correlate to "higher" in the body, or "upper" towards the head with the heart as a focal or balancing center point between the earthly and the spiritual).

   But, through deep, love centered meditation particularly, this energy can become more directed, or channeled through all of the centers, creating a unified, balanced connection between all the centers, energizing and vivifying them. 

   When this happens, changes can happen in the body according to the rule sets in which consciousness interacts with the body/physical. 

   It raises the vibrations of the body itself, and attunes it more closely to that of the consciousness. It's like tuning an instrument to a master player.  If the energy is cycling through all centers to the Pituitary (the glandular center most directly connected to those most expanded feelings, awareness's, etc), it can and will lead to loss of sex drive in the normal, or hormonal sense.  There can still be "general" attraction to others, but not in the sexual, hormonal sense. 

  Other changes can be slowing down or stopping of aging, strengthening the body vitality and balancing, basically increasing the "Qi" as some call it. 

   But, do most people "need" to do this.  Nah, and it's probably not a good idea to attempt unless you're so directed to from within.  In probability, you won't be directed from within, until you are near the consciousness of Love divine where you given the choice and asked, do you want to devote all of yourself and your will to becoming fully one with Love and the creative forces, or continuing to fool around yo yoing back and forth.  The huge majority of individuals aren't even close to being at this point in their development in a probable sense in this lifetime.

  However, this is what the man Yeshua experienced, and as the pattern of spiritual perfection in the Earth, his redirection of this powerful energy within the body, sped up the transformation process of him coming to experience what some call the Light body (misnamed really), which is simply him taking control of all aspects of his energy system as related to physical, mental and Soul, via what some call Spirit--that of Consciousness, of Love and creative Will.  All of it came under the power of Love, of creative Will, of Spirit.  He came to experience the reality of being in the world, but no longer of it. 

   Could he have completed this process having had a wife, lovers, kids, etc?   Possibly, but some of the ancient Taoists intuited some of these truths so long ago, but got too caught in the "goal" and the physical transformation part, while he was focused on becoming the clearest channel of Light and PUL he could be.  Everything else was a side effect.  He was only concerned with having the most constructive and creative effect upon others and the Whole. 

      In more simple short terms, the more you match your wavelengths with that of the earthly earth, the more you tend to limit yourself, because the physical earth is THAT of FEAR and separation, which is why that consciousness is so strong, pervasive, and collective here.  Why it's so hard for an individual to be the full Light being that they are. 

It both evolved or developed that way, and to another extent, limits were deliberately imposed for learning experiences.  To some extent, these went hand in hand.  As one uses their freewill, and gets further from Source in their consciousness, the more they need an environment to remind and challenge and present "consequences" to wake them up and at the same time the more they co-create a limiting environment/dimension, aka the "hells" that some talk of.   

  The physical earth is somewhat unique in that it's both a deliberately created structure or stream of info (with a positive, expanding intention), and also to some extent like a temporal hell, co created from a collective direction of activity and choice. 

  So no, the sex drive, and sexual desire, etc, is not "wrong", however it is innately limiting from a purely spiritual perspective except to facilitate bodies (channels) for experience in this focus.  That is it's most creative aspect.

  In the future, humans will not need or require such activity to co-create bodies within the earth.  It will be more direct thought to physical manifestation. 

  This is also what happened with Miriam, Yeshua's mother.  They were the far future, in our somewhat ancient past.  Likewise are those like Recoverer, the future in the present to a lesser extent. 

  In this world though, because of like attracts and begets like, most are not attracted to the very expanded sources of info, but pick and choose according to their general and average resonation, closer to home so to speak.

  This tendency can be overcome with conscious awareness of the tendency and knowledge of how (reciprocal) reality is set up.  If one appeals to and directs focus to the most expanded, most Love attuned, etc, then one may get glimpses and attractions beyond these typical reactions, attractions, perceptions, etc.

  But how many in this world seek thusly?  It answers itself, most are content with themselves and those like themselves and thus does humanity evolve rather slowly and in a very yo yo manner.  As Yeshua said so long ago, most of humanity is afraid of the Light, and revels in the absence and prefers the seeming dark (lower degree of Light).  The more intense and pure the Light, the more most of us shy away from same. 

  Which is why the real Yeshua, separate from religion, church, mainstream beliefs, etc, is so little focused on and sought.  He represents the very most expanded of that potential within us, our highest selves reflected purely back to us.  So we remain content with the Moens, Monroes, Cayce's, Bruce's, TC's, etc of the world.  Nothing "wrong" with that either, but ultimately still limiting if one would be truly free. 

True Dat.