Berserk2 wrote on May 22^nd, 2013 at 8:32pm:


Don, I'm still trying to make sense of the OT sacrifices, so maybe you can help. The following are my thoughts. Perhaps you can comment and let me know if I'm close.

Ritual sacrifice was an important part of the culture around the time of Leviticus. God demanded animal sacrifices not because he required blood or death (I've heard theories that God required a substitutionary death for man's sins via animal sacrifices), but because the sacrifice represented repentance in the minds of men. So it was essentially the best way of introducing the practice of repentance into that culture.

Does this sound accurate?

I've also heard the idea that the killing of animals served as a demonstration and representation of the evil and horror of sin, so in this way the people in that culture had a way of understanding how horrible sin was in the eye of God via the relationship between the gruesome act of killing these animals and the sins they were committing which required the killing.

At this point it is useful to see how the meaning of Christ's atoning death finds practical expression in baptism and Holy Communion.  For Paul, baptism means immersion, which in turn symbolizes a burial with Christ in which our sinful nature is buried and our participation in Christ's resurrection power when we rise from the water a new creation in Christ.  In other words, because on the cross, JGod takes responsibility for creating flawed human nature, the crucified Jesus represents us in such a way that we share His fate, ignominious death, followed by glorious risen power and life.  Paul expresses this in Romans 6:3:5:

"Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. For if we have been united with him in a death like His, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like His."

This symbolism has a twofold practical application:
(1) By the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the true Christian's life expresses His/her Christ Self:

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.  And the life I now live I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me (Galatians 2:19-20)."

(2) Another way of expressing this is that our immersion baptism initiates our being clothed with Christ's Spirit.  But "wearing Christ" in this way becomes real only to the degree that we the church become truly one (in love and harmony.  Thus, in Christ there can be no discrimination based on race, social standing, or gender:

"As many as were baptized into Christ have clothed themselves with Christ.  There  is no longer Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, Jew nor Gentile; for all are one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:27-28)."

How Christ's atoning death manifests on concrete Christian unity and oneness must be illustrated by a proper understanding and practice of Holy Communion.  I will explain how this is intended to work in a future post.

A proper attitude towards the sacrament of Holy Communion demonstrates the practical implication of at/one/ment theology.  Consider these 4 points:

(1) For Jesus the practice of Holy Communion must not be trivialized as merely symbolic; it is a way to affirm and reestablish an intimate connection with Him:

"My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.  Those whoi eat my flesh and drink my blood ABIDE IN ME AND I IN THEM (John 6:35-36)."

It is a visceral way to acknowledge the crucified Christ as our representative and thus is our way of mystically "participating" in and benefitting from Christ's atoning death. 

(2) But Communion is not a magical ritual.  How does this ritual enable such an intimate connection with Christ?  The answer is a proper reaction to the double meaning of the bread as the body of Christ.  The bread represents not only Christ's body broken on the cross, but also the Church as the corporate Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 10:16-17).

(3) Just as baptism means a commitment to abolish discrimination based on race, social standing, and gender (Galatians 3:27-28), so Communion implies an agreement to work towards a loving harmony with socially marginal members of Christ's body.  The consequences can be serious for those who establish an intimate connection with Christ through Communion, and yet, do nothing to enhance this loving group harmony:

"All who eat and drink WIHOUT DISCERNING THE BODY eat and drink judgment against themselves.  Foe this reason, many of you are sick and ill, and some have died (11:29-30)."

Paul's indignation is prompted by complaints from believers among the poor and slaves who are being neglected and denied a loving share of the food and drink served at the love feast, of which Holy Communion is a part.  The conventional elitism that characterizes Greek culture has infected the church in defiance of Paul's teaching.  Divine protection from dark forces can be removed as a result of a frivolous participation in Communion. 

(4) The NT frowns on isolated spirituality.  Authentic Holy Communion and intimacy with Christ normally requires regular attendance of a church or worship group.

"Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good deeds, NOT NEGLECTING TO ASSEMBLE TOGETHER, as the habit of some is, but encouraging one another (Hebrews 10:24-25)."

The badge of Christian spirituality is our love for others in general, but the Christians' demonstration of a love for each other that emulates Jesus' love for His disciples:

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, id you have love for one another (John 13:35)." 

A truly loving Christian community is needed to draw in the unchurched.

Tonight I went to church for the first time since my conversion. It was a local baptist church that some volleyball friends invited me to. A band played Christian rock songs for the first 45 minutes, and the rest of the two hour session was preaching and communion. I was more open to the ritual after doing more research into it since my last post, as I am a bit aversive towards Catholic rituals  and I hadn't given it deep enough consideration.

The preacher seemed wise, spoke with great emotion, and was biblical. The music they played moved me to tears as I contemplated and worshiped Jesus. My eyes were actually teary more than they were dry tonight. I didn't see anyone else crying but I didn't feel uncomfortable about it.

I was baptized at the local Catholic church before I was a believer (for marriage purposes), but I am thinking of getting baptized at this baptist church, not that I think it's necessary but it's something I want to do to symbolize my faith. Anyway, it was a great experience and I'm definitely going back next week.

Don, thanks for encouraging me to seek out a church. This was just what I needed.

Thanks, I will check out some other churches before I settle on one.

So you're a fellow volleyballer, huh? My kind of guy! Maybe you'd enjoy this short video of me that gives the term "deadly spiker" a new meaning!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wyb3_LrRkM

So I'm wondering if there is a connection between Don's last post and him being banned. For the life of me, I can't comprehend how he could get banned when I could site dozens of posts by other members who clearly violated the posting guidelines to a far greater degree and much more consistently than anything Don has done. Let this serve as a lesson to all at this forum that if you don't conform to the consensus belief system, you are not welcomed here. Pathetic.

I Am Dude wrote on Jun 12^th, 2017 at 5:57pm:


How do you know that Don is banned?

crossbow