Hi Ottawa,

why should anyone stand up for L Flint? 
If you want to challenge his experiences do it at his website.

I had wonderful experiences using methods described by this site’s founder. You could too.

Bets

Because i assume the medium may really be able to contact the deceaded if the consciousness of thr deceased really exists. I dont believe i can myself make contact and if there was some perceived contsct i would think it is just all in my mind.

Yes, I believe I’ve contacted several people who have passed over. But that is not the purpose of Bruce Moen’s information.  The main purpose is to do retrievals.

One example: Several years ago a fellow named Romaine asked anyone here to contact a fellow whose cause of death was unknown. His family wanted to know was it suicide, or an accident, or murder, that caused him to fall from a hotel window.  If several of us would contact him in the afterlife and ask him what happened, then his family would be at peace.

Romaine told us his first name and the date of his death. We were not to communicate with each other but just tell Romaine the results.  If some of the results were similar, Romaine would tell the family, then tell us.

Soon Romaine PM'd us that we all had made contact with the deceased fellow, we all similarly described him as he had been physically and personality-wise, we all got the same cause from him about his fall and death. So then we were free to PM each other and discuss it .

Ever one who does it then realizes how easy it seems, after they’ve done  few. To clear sensitivities one has to approach it with kindness rather than with thoughts of personal gain or negativity. Reading host Bruce Moen’s information does that.

Bets

A deceased English Victorian woman and her new born who both died at childbirth, get retrieved by a beautiful woman and both end up in the afterlife. It's her physical description of Jesus the Christ she sees in the afterlife that intrigues me. She describes Jesus differently from the paintings, etc, that portray him as looking like a white anglo-saxon male. I personally believe that is what he really looked like in first century Israel-middle east, fitting in with the rest of the population there.

Channeled by Leslie Flint.

Trasncript of Jenny Wilson a working class woman from Victorian England.

RECORDED ON APRIL 26 1971

"I am Jenny. [Repeated several times] How are you? Good, I am very well too. You are Spirits too, but you are still on the earth. I am a Spirit too, not on the earth. That’s the only difference between you and me. I have been here a long time now. I did not believe all this when I was on your side. No. Now I know better. You are Spiritualists, as they call them, and understand. You believe in communication; that’s why I’m here.

I had my share of trouble but now I haven’t got a care in the world.

[She is asked where she lived on earth]

I was brought up in the country in a place called Smallfoot [?]…. I was one of a family of eleven children and when we were quite small children we would have to be up early in the morning and go to work in the fields; sometimes potato picking, according to the season; sometimes stone picking; all sorts of things to earn a few extra coppers. I married when I was eighteen. My husband worked on a farm as a labourer, ploughing, hoeing, and all the rest of it according to the seasons.

I died in childbirth with my first child. I was out in the fields. In those days we had to work up to the very last moment and then you were lucky if you had a doctor; usually a woman in the village, or someone, would help. Both the baby and me died in a hedge. I have been here many years now. People don’t know what we people had to suffer in those days.

Q [She is asked if she brought up her baby in the spirit world]

Yes, and I have here now beside me my daughter, and if you could see us we look like each other. I don’t look any older and she has grown up to a fine young woman now. My husband married again, and he is here now and we are often together on this side of life. But we do not live together, but we are together—do you understand? I find it very funny coming to talk to you in this way. I hope you can hear what I say.

Q [Asked how long since she died]

It must be getting on now for a hundred years, I suppose, it was Queen Victoria on the throne. I once saw the Queen.

Q [Asked how did she bring up her child in the spirit world?]

Well, as far as I can tell you, it was the same as you would have done, more or less, on earth, excepting, as far as I can understand in my own experience you don’t have some sort of material ways. It’s I suppose to do with…really you have to realise that the spirit that you are bringing up and educating and helping…. it’s not the body in the same way… it looks much the same…and it takes time I suppose, like it would have done on earth …but it is…one is conscious, I suppose, in a way, of time. I suppose in my case it’s because I was young and the child was new. I was given the joy of bringing the child up as if it were almost the same as on earth. I watched her gradually grow up and play with other children of the same sort of age, and gradually go to school and learn various things that were considered necessary, and of course I taught her little things, and I…but I realised that I had no education…I couldn’t read or write, I had never been to school in my life and I wasn’t able to do much in that way; all I could help her with was to realise and to think of the right sort of things, and to pass her time in learning and gaining all the knowledge that she could from others, but she and I worked together in a nice little place, a cottage, which I’d always hoped that my husband and I would have had eventually, but it wasn’t to be.

Q [Did you have a cottage on earth?]

Oh no, we had to live with his parents, oh…shocking.

My married name was Wilson, Jane… Jenny, and his name was Bill.

I go now to all sorts of interesting places, and I have learned a great deal on this side, and I have educated myself… or been educated, I suppose you’d say…..but the funny thing is, coming here seems strange…and I can’t seem to get hold of my real self….I find myself sort of like I was….

[Coughing on tape]

Got a cold? That’s one thing we don’t have over here. No colds, nothing like that, no sickness, no illness, no nothing like that. Oh it’s wonderful.

My daughter dances, and she loves music, and she’s a beautiful dancer…oh she is really beautiful…you should see her…she’s like a what-you-call-it…a fairy.  Of course over here, you see, they have great processions and great get-togethers or …oh I don’t know what you call them. …pageants,… or something like that …and they have great sort of places where you go… and all sorts of beautiful things happen…music…and colour…and dancing...and oh it’s very beautiful…and she plays in some of these here ceremonies as you call them, you see…and she is really good you know….I often wondered you know…well of course… I mean, I never had a chance to do anything when I was on your side…because of …well. I ‘d never been to what they call a theatre on your side…the nearest thing I ever went to was something not far from where we lived in the town where they had a company come…some playings...,  they used to come…in the town hall, you know, that’s all I’d ever seen, and that was…well, oh I don’t know quite now how that was, that I went there, but I did, and it was nice.

Q [She is asked what her nearest town was]

Bishop’s Stortford.

Q [She is asked if she felt bewildered and surprised when she passed over with her baby]

Yes I was, rather…. but …oh dear…I think there’s something gone wrong
[Here she appears to think there is a communication breakdown]



We used to have a wagon and we used to go to the nearest town sometimes…they let us have the wagon…and us and the villagers we used to go to the market town and that’s where once I went to this…it wasn’t a theatre…it was this town hall …and they was doing some plays…don’t remember what it was now…long time ago.  Of course over here I’ve seen wonderful plays, and wonderful things …I have…ohh…just marvellous…of course I’m so different now!....here’s me talking to you in this way, and I can hear myself in a strange kind of way and I’m saying to myself, Now that’s not you Jenny…not as you are now, that’s as you was…and you know it’s most funny, it’s as if somehow as I come and I talk to you… as if I’m the old self …and I wouldn’t want to stay like that…oh, not for anything! I want to be what I am now, and talk and say things like I can do, not like I was.

It’s funny, this box thing isn’t it? Oh I don’t know what they do with it…it’s a very funny business isn’t it? I’ve heard about you actually from several things…you’ve been to these what-you-call-them…séances?...oh yes…Oh I remember those days in the country….never knew anything much from the time when I was quite a small child and we’d be in the country in the fields and ….ah well…they were terrible days…people don’t know how terrible they was for people like us ….oh terrible. Now I come and I see what goes on in your world …and I don’t know….I suppose of course things are much better for the ordinary people…much better…better, better, better altogether…but it is a frightening world…oh with all them motorcars and things…of course we had none of them…oh they’re horrible, horrible…shouldn’t want to be with you now…I’m happy…lovely house, lovely place, lovely people …oh goodness me I wouldn’t come back for anything. I don’t mind coming just for a minute to have a word, but oh I wouldn’t want to come back and make a life, oh no I wouldn’t want that.

Q[She is asked who helped her when she passed over]

Well there was a very beautiful lady. I remember being under the hedge, and I knew that I was going to die; I don’t know how I knew I was. And some woman, or two women actually, friends of mine and one of them had gone running off to try and get help…and the other one was there…there we was in the hedge… you know…. and I knew I was going to die…I knew…I knew…I don’t know how I knew…but I knew I was...and it was just as if…I don’t know…it was just as if I was drifting and drifting away…and I could hear this friend trying to help and comfort… but of course there was nothing they could do under the circumstances and I knew I was going to pass, as you call it….and anyway I remember sort of was losing myself and then finding myself…that’s funny isn’t it?.

And there I was standing…standing in the fields and I had got this baby in my arms! But I just didn’t understand it at all…that I should be standing in the middle of this field…and you know, with a baby…and all around me I could see miles of scenes of country…and yet it was not the same country I’d been used to… but different

Q [More beautiful?]

Yes…in a way…but different.

Q [Were there trees?]

Well there was and there wasn’t…there were trees…but I knew they weren’t real trees…and the countryside wasn’t real countryside…and I guess, sort of deep down inside me felt lost…as if I was in a dream...and I had a feeling I was in a kind of dream…and that all these things would disappear…and the trees were different...I had never seen trees like this at all…they were big trees and they’d got great big leaves hanging … long branches…and I learned afterwards that they were trees like you see in foreign parts

Q [Any flowers on them?]

No they were just like these palms…that I had occasionally seen in church...you know, at Easter…and I realised that I was in a strange sort of country like nothing I’d seen before…and yet it wasn’t real …and all of a sudden I saw a procession… well that’s what I thought it was …of people…all dressed in beautiful garments…coming up a wide sort of road…and I was coming out of this field…and it seems as if I was on this road…and then as I was walking towards this crowd of people…and all these beautiful colours and clothes…as if something was happening to me….and gradually everything changed…and the whole scene was different…and I was standing beside…well, what looked like the sea…and yet it wasn’t the sea…I’d never seen the sea…I’d never been to the sea…I’d heard about the sea…but I saw all this great water …and I had no idea.

I’d heard rather from what people had said you know… that people had read, you know… these things that they’d written, books, sometimes, you know…we used to have someone who sometimes used to read to us…it sounded as if I was in some foreign part…as if it sort of tallied with what I’d heard about Jesus, and Galilee… and there was a lot of people all standing and listening… and up on the sort of rocks there was this man…beautiful man, with beautiful black hair, ever so shiny , and beautiful eyes …and he was sort of talking to these people …and there was a lot of children…and, I don’t know, I just thought of what I’d heard in the church when the man read to us about Jesus, and Galilee …and it all seemed to have something to do with him…and I was there with this child of mine… and very sort of… I don’t know… worried… and you know I didn’t know where I was or what  I was or who I was , hardly… it was most peculiar and it was as if almost all the time I was thinking of what was happening…and yet at the same time I was thinking about myself in that hedge and my friend and the baby,

And I think I must have been in a peculiar sort of state…that’s what I’ve heard since…that evidently I was in this state of mind… what I was told afterwards was that what I went through then was a sort of…I don’t know whether you’d call it a dream.. ...But it was a peculiar state where `I was neither in one place nor the other …anyway I was sort of caught up with all these here people that were sitting around and listening …and I could hear this voice…. but it was funny because I could hear the voice and yet the man didn’t appear to be speaking anything and I could sort of feel that I was being drawn towards him… and as I walked forward people sort of moved aside… and there was great sort of music going on…I don’t know what it was… there was no people there playing any fiddles or anything… and it was as if I was sort of…  I don’t know… hearing things that weren’t being said… and hearing things that weren’t being played… and instruments I didn’t see… but it was like beautiful church music, but much better than anything we’d ever had in our church.

And I could hear this music getting louder and louder and louder and I could hear this voice which was calling me to go forward towards the man who was sitting on this rock …and this man looked like…well not like Jesus… because the pictures I’d seen of Jesus…he’d always been a fair bloke you know…and this man was dark… oh very dark…very dark complexion, olive complexion… very black eyes… very wonderful eyes they were… and his hair was hanging to his shoulders …and oh I just felt drawn there …and somehow as I got nearer and nearer and nearer ....it was just as if everything disappeared …everything just disappeared.

And then I woke up in a very nice room …with the baby beside me...in a very nice room …and there was people standing there smiling at me …and there I was in bed with a baby in my arms  …in this pretty room …and there were several people standing round ...people I didn’t know, but all seemed so happy and so kind …and I was told that I had arrived and that all was well and there was nothing to worry about any more …that this would be my home… I would be looked after with the child …that this would make up to me for all the unhappiness I had known…and that this would be my future place in which I would gradually find a new self…that’s how they put it…a new self.

I didn’t understand and they said: Don’t worry and just be patient and leave everything to us …just close your eyes and lose yourself ...just be quiet and at peace and when you come round later we’ll tell you more about everything but this is not the right moment …just know that you’ve come home and you are safe and so is the baby …and later we’ll tell you more about it …oh it was wonderful…it was as if in some way this beautiful, beautiful experience, as you say, I had with this beautiful man, and I was told afterwards that this was the Christ, manifesting himself as he does …that’s the way they put it and I’ve learned since many of these things… and words and things…manifesting, they called it,  his spirit to those who are coming from the darkness into the light and were being received into the realms of spiritual love…and that this was my reception, they called it , and that all was well …that I wasn’t to be unhappy any more…and that my child and I had been given new life in the realms of happiness, as they called it .

I suppose they said these things, obviously, that I would understand them …but I’ve learned a lot more since…much more, oh much more …but you did ask me about how I came …but I can’t say any more now …it’s been rather difficult, I had to get someone to help me because I felt as if I was drifting away from you...but I’ve, you know, done my bit for you …and I’ll try and come again and tell you what, you know…how things have been since my coming …but I can say that this business of dying is…well…, there’s nothing much to it really …I suppose it’s natural we all fear it when on your side …but it’s natural and it’s not that different really from being born …in a kind of way it is like being born again …like we was told in the old days in the church …but of course it is natural …nothing unnatural or strange ....no one need worry …I’m beautifully happy and I’m very much …well I’m very much more advanced I suppose now, obviously , but you did ask me to talk about this… so that’s why I tried to get my thoughts on the old things, the early things, you see…anyway I’ll come if I can another time …I must go. Bye-bye."

betson wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 3:30pm:


Me, skeptical! Never! It just relates to something Bruce said many moons ago on this forum, that your (religious)belief system will dictate where in the afterlife you will gravitate too after physical death. He said something like, "Lutherans will go to a Lutheran 'heaven' etc," "Catholics will go to a Catholic heaven etc,". In other words to the BST's I suppose. It also reinforces my personal opinion that Jesus really did exist after all, 2000 or so years ago in old Israel. It just adds evidence to that great teacher and spirit, Jesus, and helps to erode away the 'skeptical' side of me that sometimes says he didn't exist.

Flint's site is interesting.

The injterview with Harry Price
http://www.leslieflint.com/transcripts_price.html

has an interesting discussion that differentiates from ghosts and spirits. The ghost, in his view, is a thought-form left from or in response to an intense incident. A spirit has a soul-connection. Not sure I would know how to tell the difference!

harvey wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 5:39pm:


    A people's average looks and characteristics tend to change over time due to various factors, but especially mixing and immigration.  The Middle East has not been, especially in the past, particularly isolated and homogeneous peoples.  There's been a lot of mixing of different ethnic groups, which is why there are past accounts which mention Galaliens' with blue eyes for example.  The Celts were particularly known for traveling the far corners of the world during the ancient times and mixing with different peoples. 

  Which is why they have found ancient mummies in places like China where the remains include tall, reddish haired, more "euro" looking peoples. 

   So while there were some averages back then, as now, we can't say for sure that "Jesus" would have looked a particular way.  (not to mention that some both religious and psychic sources indicate both he and his mother had an unusual birth and origin, which if true, most likely would have altered their genetic patterns to some extent). 

Along these lines, it's not particularly important what Yeshua looked like, but i do find it interesting that a number of psychically derived, but unrelated sources describe similar things about Yeshua's looks.  One odd commonality, which is also different than most of the traditional depictions, is that Yeshua had noticably reddish colored hair.  Two Edgar Cayce readings note this (and one a weight of at least 170 lbs, piercing, heavy gray-blue eyes), Robert Monroe had Joseph McMoneagle remote view "Jesus" and he mentioned reddish hair and taller, a Jewish lady who had a NDE and who vividly perceived Yeshua spiritually as well as apparently physically like mentioned he had reddish hair. 

  Perhaps also psychically derived is an ancient prophecy in the Dead Sea Scrolls which mention that the coming Messiah would have reddish hair.  I forget which book this is found in. 

  IF the Shroud of Turin is any indication, and if it is the Resurrection-burial cloth of Yeshua, then it indicates that physically he was not "sterotypically Hebrew" looking (whatever that means or entails) for that time period since according to the best estimates of those well educated in those areas, most sources ascertain that the man who from whose image was formed on the Shroud was most likely from 5' 11" to 6' 1" in height (and fairly well built, strong and muscular). 

  I found it very interesting reading one of the shroud books which mentioned that the pathologist who had studied the shroud indicated that the man would have weighed around 175 lbs give or take a few lbs. 

This is remarkably close to what Cayce's guidance mentioned when they mentioned "at least 170 lbs".  This Cayce Reading was given well before this modern research was done and given on the Shroud, and his readings were given before the Dead Sea Scrolls were found (his source actually predicted it's discovery yrs before it was). 

  We know from the N.T. accounts that Yeshua was a very active individual (walked constantly and A LOT), who didn't eat a whole lot as a trend (often apparently going without food for periods of a time), and so we can expect that he was probably rather skinny, but he had done carpenter work for a number of years prior, so he probably was fairly muscular and strong.  For a man very skinny, but strong and muscular, at around 6 foot or so tall, 170 or so lbs is a good fit. 

  So i will keep my mind open to what he truly looked like.