I have one questions which puzzles me as an atheist. Having read Moen's books,
then tried out doing retrievals, and also written some of them down on this site,
I'm still wondering...

Why are there so many Christians here referring to God?

Reading both Monroe's and Moen's books, there seems to be indications of the opposite.
Deceased people appear as "angels" to help some people easier move to F 27. People
believing in any kind of Earthly religion usually gets stuck in the BST Focuses, etc.

So, why do some of you still cling on to Christian beliefs, when so much in Monroe's and
Moen's (and Buhlman's) writings point to the contrary?

Sigh.

I am Jewish but have a great love of the truths found in the New Testament.

The problem here is the lack of understanding of what "christian beliefs" are.  Before disparaging the religion, tell me, have you read and or understood the gospels?  They are pretty straight-forward.  The main message JC brings is to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.  To be open to acting in a loving way. 

JC taught by parables - stories meant to bring understanding to those who heard the stories.  Some take literal or fundamental interpretations of the stories and convert them into a not-so-loving end.  This is not what my take on the christian doctrine is truly about.  When men were about to stone a prostitute, JC was quoted as interceding and saying "let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone."   They all put down their stones and left.  This teaching is in stark contrast to some of the ideas of "conservative" people in some churches, who might indeed have cast a stone. 

In the writings on encounters in heaven - be it from TMI, or other mystics, there are many corroborative stories that: 1.  there is a God - a transcendent force of pure love underlying all of our being or essence that we allow into or shut out of our lives.  2.  That the golden rule - to love thy neighbor and tolerance is important.  And finally 3.  That we create our own realities, heaven or hell depending on the innermost loves that we fan with our own thoughts and flames.

A deeper understanding of Christ's message is completely compatible with Monroe-Moen findings; that is; the kingdom of God is not to be found without (the material world, a "heaven") but within yourself.  This notion, is confirmed by mystics who realize that we, as conscious beings are co-creators with God, who, by our choices allow or deny his love and spirit into our minds and actions.  God is not some anthropomorphic old man on a throne, but a force of elemental love which permeates us, or is distanced if we choose to think and act unlovingly.  This is a difficult concept for some.

So I see no contradiction between the true teachings of Christ as shown in the Gospels and parables of the New Testament and the findings of explorers and mystics.   Now fundamentalists who thump a Bible to express their own hatred - that speaks for itself.  But they do not express christian thought, love and ethos when preaching against others, etc. 

Why are there so many Christians on this site?  Why not?  The teachings are based on love and immortality.  Why not have explorers from the world's 2 billion or so christians come to this site? 

M

Pauli,

If you read what JC speaks of  - his "quotes" and passages, then most actually deal with love and living a loving life.   These interpretations you mention are not handed down as "rules" from the New Testament.  They are misinterpretations of the stories or parables of JC. 

How could one who admonishes a group not to stone  a prostitute and to "judge not, less ye be judged," be of the same mind as the Bible thumping fundamentalist who excludes others?  Simple answer - the truth behind the message of the gospels is all about love and tolerance.  The "spin" of the fundamentalists is their own twisting of things.

M

Well certainly the source of everything is more than mindless pure awareness that became capable of thought only after beings such ourselves came around.

I believe people are mistaken if they believe that Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen don't believe in God. Robert did speak of the Creator, and Bruce met with this being. Robert didn't like to use the name "God" because of all that's been attached to God. But if you read what Robert wrote in Ultimate Journey there is an intelligent being who is responsible for the creation of us and the universe we find ourselves within.

I don't mind using the word God because I'm not willing to give up the name God simply because some people have attached false concepts to God.

Regarding Jesus Christ, unexpectedly at first, I had spiritual experiences that showed me that Jesus the man did in fact exist and he was a very qualified spiritual messenger. These experiences took place in a way where it wasn't a matter of my spinning out some belief oriented experiences. I've read of other people who had experiences with Jesus that weren't based on their belief system.

Perhaps—just as some souls have their spiritual progress delayed for a while because they get stuck in a religious belief system; perhaps some souls have their progress delayed because they shrink down in fear anytime somebody brings up the names God and Christ. If they reconsidered how they view things they might find out that God and Christ can be thought of in a way that is wonderful rather than negative (and supposedly stupid).

Paul,

You are an atheist who apparently believes in an afterlife.  How can you have such a belief without some sort of concept of Supreme Intelligence orchestrating life here and in the hereafter? 
As Matthew eloquently explains, you seem to have a crude caricature of the diversity and true teaching of the early church.  For example, do you realize that the early church provides the first LITERARY example of a belief in soul retrievals?  Do you realize that early Christianity and the Judaisn of late antiquity teach the pre-existence of the soul? 

Bruce's site now has a special section for religious discussion and I have posted a comment on 3 of the long--abandoned threads there.  Why don't you engage me with such questions there?  Bruce created that special discussion section for that purpose.

Don

[Paul: I don't get the impression that such a being is needed or that any indications points in such a direction.
The theory of evolution postulates progression towards more advanced and adaptable life on the basic of natural selection and genetic mutation.  These principles help certain species survive and reproduce their gene pools.  But nothing in evolutionary science predicts that disembodied human spirits would survive in a blissful, loving, and productive postmortem lifestyle.  There is no genetic mutation in the supposed afterlife. 

[Paul:] I don't get the "Supreme" in Supreme Intelligence either.

Most Christian theologians deny that God is a unique supreme "Being" among countless created beings.  Rather, God is conceived as the answer to the ultimate philosophical question, "Why is there something rather than nothing at all?"  This question has no answer from an atheistic perspective.  But what if God has in God's own nature tha reason for God's own existence?  In othe words, what if God is not a particular Being, but rather the ground of all Being?  Put differently, what if God is the underlying unity beneath all things?  From a Christian perspective, these are questions that lead to belief in the biblical God.  Now the god of Bruce Moen and Robert Monroe is conceived differently, but neither are atheists. 

[Paul:] No such being seems to exist in a world full of pain and evil.  Why would someone Supreme allow such things?

Your question can be answered in great detail.  But are you really open to having this question answered?  If so, start a thread on the problem of evil in Bruce's religion section.  By the way, you do know that the Christian model is not the only model of the ground of all being?   Why have you closed the door to non-Christian theism?

recoverer wrote on Jun 1^st, 2012 at 8:04pm:

But we don't have free will. Monroe reported numerous times that his I-There
controlled him, made him do tests, made him move around in the astral.

Also, Monroe's Creator is far from the Christian god, so I'm still puzzled
why people interpret Monroe's Creator as a Christian god.

It certainly isn't.

recoverer wrote on Jun 1^st, 2012 at 10:13pm:

You will, if you pay more attention.

In your dreams, you will do things you usually wouldn't do, and those actions
are directed by someone else.

Also in retrievals you will. One example of my own is when I rudely push
down a wall in the White Collar Businessman retrieval.

I had no intention in doing such a thing, yet I was made to push down the wall.

A child born in a Muslim family will often become Muslim. A child born in
a Christian family will often become Christian. Not much free will there.

In my opinion, free will is an illusion Christians cling on to. It's part of
the Christian god concept.