http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/04/01/andrew-sullivan-christianity-in...

I highly recommend this article. It brings Jesus into focus much more from the angle that members of this board present, and should be read especially by those who have become disgusted with organized religion. Let me know what you think.

It is good to remember the primary issues Jefferson faced in his time...the anglican church was supported as the state church...taxes supported the vicar in his church and manse and servants and food.  Attendance was mandatory, despite whatever your religious beliefs might be.  Upon the execution of the Declaration of Independence, Mr. Jefferson undertook the writing of the Virginia Declaration of Religious Freedom, which was ratified some years after the constitution. 

Jefferson's beliefs were in line with the comments derived from the Christ, but not with the epistemology contributed second, third and fourth hand, all of whom had their individual agendas...anything outside of individual relationship with God was anathema to Mr. Jefferson, and the obligation to attend church and support the local vicar, who doubled as the local drunk, did nothing to enhance the locals to follow their religious sheperd. 

  The ascension IS an integral part of Yeshua's overall example.  Plenty of people, plenty of teachers have lived good lives of service and good example, but who of these have publicly conquered the strongest illusion--that of death and the power of same?   Only Yeshua.

    Those that try to cut out the crowning of his attainment, because they don't understand it personally, or don't think it's necessary in the larger picture, are essentially short sighted fools that would do well to get out of their intellect.

  T.J. was a smart man, but one who needed to live his Christianity principles more before i would listen over much to him.  A man who talked about liberty and equality for all, and yet kept slaves.  His sense of PUL was mighty convenient and self serving at times. 



(an interesting side note: Cayce's guidance indicated that the same Disk who had projected the life of Alexander the Great, had also projected Thomas Jefferson).

    Yes Bardo, more focus on the core of Christianity, especially in the teachings, life, and example of him, could generally be more helpful.   

  I was speaking earlier specifically on T.J. and that my sense of it is that he was a highly intellectual man (not surprising, being born under Aries) who did not personally understand the resurrection or other so called "mystical" acts of Yeshua, also including the various miracles, and in his lack of understanding and in his intolerance for such mystical mumbo jumbo, he sought to "delete" these as if they never had happened and don't exist.  That is quite a mistake and limiting, to put it mildly. 

  If we're going to look at Yeshua at all, then it's necessary to take him as he is, and not as how we preconceive him to be.   He became more than human.  He wanted to show us how unlimited and powerful we could become, if we aligned our will with the Will of Creative Forces and become pure channels for PUL, like he did.

   Without providing "proofs" and material demonstrations of that full attunement--why or how are we to believe his high claims for self and for others?    He called himself the "Son of Man"--this was not an attempt to humanize himself as some have said, but a stated recognition that he was that powerful Creator Being that Enoch had talked about and prophesied to come. 

  He also said that we were Gods in the making.  If humans can't even think that Will can master physical reality, how are they to believe that they have the capacity to become Co-Creator Gods like he is?  We, as humans, think ourselves so limited to and by our physical reality. 

   Thankfully we do have some more psychic and non denominational sources to help us figure certain things out.  We have Monroe's "He/She", we have Cayce's guidance and Rosalind's guidance which talk about Yeshua' unusual abilities and capacities.   Rosalind's guidance indicated that even before the crucifixion, Yeshua had complete control over his physical energies and could phase them (his body) into the "spiritual" dimension. 

   There are those of us that would like to or have a need to "humanize" Yeshua and say he was just a man, albeit a very good and loving man.  There are those of us which would put him on an unreachable, God pedestal and would convince others, "you are not like him and you cannot become like him".    These are extremes and both limiting. 

   Yes, he was human, but a human who made his will and desires completely in line with the Creative Forces.  In doing so, he became more than human and he provided material demonstrations to others to help them believe what our potential is, by showing us what our potential is.  That potential is mastery over physical reality and so called "Law".   All is subservient to the Law of Love and those fully intune with and pure channels of it. 

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I think TJ's value is in that he was the one who formulated the direction of the discussion.  He inherited slaves and was born into a society in which that was the norm.  If he eschewed his country, its customs and institutions and had branded them all as what we now consider horrendous, he would have had no voice with which to propound liberty and equality for all, nor the ending of state mandated religion and the possibility individuals may have the opportunity to view The Christ as you now so ably describe.  To me, to qualify and minimize his contributions by viewing them through the lens of our current societal myopia is ignorant at best and misleading at worst...but for him, we would not have progressed to this point of social and spiritual freedom, and while a work in progress, it is certainly farther along than it would have been.

usetawuz wrote on Apr 8^th, 2012 at 11:58am:


  Hi Usetawuz,

  I think T.J. contributed much to America and i am appreciative for his service in that area.  While i can sort of understand why he "re-wrote" the N.T. the way he did, i cannot say that his contribution to the understanding of Yeshua and his life was in same league as his service to America. 

After all, this thread is titled "Thomas Jefferson and Christ", which is what i was primarily addressing--that relationship and connection. 

  I do understand what you said in the above about why he possibly couldn't have tried to institute another revolution re: slavery at the time... and maybe if he and others had tried, it would have abjectly failed or even blew up in their faces.. but i really wish one of the founding fathers had had the guts to have tried. 

  But, who am i to talk, i had a life then, and didn't fight against slavery.  However, i did not own a slave then.

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I am getting the same impression in spades...bring it on.