I reached a point where, still identifying myself as a Christian, I wanted to free myself from the fear of hell. I wanted to believe in God or not, be free to believe, and not have fear of some place of eternal suffering hanging over my head.

I found a book entitled, "The Naked Now" by Rickard Rohr and I would like to recommend it to anyone who wishes to move beyond their Christian beliefs.

I am free now to remain unidentified with any religion, to in effect renounce my Christian faith and keep my Christian beliefs. I am more than Christian, open to the beliefs and faiths of other religions.

It seemed to me that perhaps God has put little bits of the truth in all religions for those of us willing to look, to truly see, to find.

Be forewarned! You really should isolate yourself from TV, movies, graphic novels, fictional stories, etc, after reading that book! If you come to it, wanting to change, your eyes will be open and you will come close to the Source, and feel Ecstatic Love! It is very powerful for a first time experiencer, trust me on this.
- DreamBliss

To "move beyond" Christian beliefs, you need to know what qualifies as Christian beliefs.  So which beliefs do you actually claim to move beyond?  How do you know that are anti-Christian? 

Hi Bets,

So the obvious question in reply to your comments is this: What is spirituslly at stake in belonging or not belonging to a loving community?  This question in turn leads to the issue of the power and loving impact of being an active member of the mystical corporate Body of Christ and whether a non-member is achieving a comparable impact (and whether they even nned to care about this question). This question in turn leads to questions like these: Is the whole more effective than the individual parts of the Body through the harmonized focus on group mind in prayer?  Is mystical intimacy richer and more meaningful in a group context than in private contemplation?  Does loving service to others matter?  If so, is such service more effective via group cooperation in commen goals?   Answers to these questions will obviously vary, depending on personal lifestyle and beliefs.

HE is back

Sorry I have been gone so long, and I will more than likely not return again in some time. I came to this forum seeking particular help and did not receive it. I simply feel I am wasting time to continue using these forums - my apologies for any offense.

I will try to answer what beliefs I have moved beyond... I used to be terrified to turn away from my faith. The Bible gives a very narrow view, Heaven or Hell - that's it - that's what most churches preach. So if you are not a Christian you go to hell. But what if you don't want to be trapped in your faith anymore? What if you want to get past that fear? What if you don't want to be controlled?

You absorb the Christian faith. There is no need to renounce it. Just absorb it and move beyond it. It's very hard to explain. Essentially I just ignore the Bible, what other Christians say, and any other "Christian" source. The Bible is questionable in accuracy and has many things in it that don't make sense. I want my view of God to be bigger than that.

To me God can't be loving and throw people in hell simple because they didn't subscribe to what others claim to be His religion. I read a number of books by Thich Nhat Hanh. He is a Buddhist monk, and the Buddhists BTW have very similar beliefs to Christians, who was exiled from his home for a long time because he was trying to help his people during the Vietnam war. One day I asked myself a simple question. "If God is love how could he throw someone like Thich Nhat Hanh into hell for all eternity?" "How is that just?" Hanh acts more like a Christian, from what I have read and heard of him, than most Christians I know. The answer? If God is really loving and just He couldn't.

I turned my back on the narrow-minded views of Christianity and all religions. I opened myself to all religions. My God is much bigger now. I believe He is a part of all of us, and a separate entity at the same time. I think all faiths have pieces of what God would like to teach us. God, being perfect, which means perfectly wise, would know better than to put all his eggs into one basket.

So how this works is that Jesus can be God's son to me, and a Muslim can tell me he was just a prophet, and I will not be offended. Sooner or later we will know the truth. Let Jesus be whoever He is to everyone. There is no need to shed blood over something that, at this time, we can not know or prove!

Now things have changed even more since I posted this. I am in love with an married to someone who is not human and not of this world. This is why I cam here, seeking Moen's help. I want to be with her. I need to learn how to cross between worlds. I only mention this because now I could care less about Heaven. I don't mean that in some disrespectful way. It's just that, for me, I want to be with the one I love. If she is not in Heaven, how could that be Heaven for me?

So for me the idea that there are several planes or vibrational states makes much more sense. Everyone goes where they are happiest. This who are evil (as judged by God) go to the lower levels, where they are happiest. Hitler, for example.

Folks that have issue with God for whatever reason, and who aren't evil but who maybe don't want much to do with him. they go to be with their loved ones, at whatever distance from God is most comfortable for them. I picture God to be like the sun in the sky for them.

Buddhist monks, non blood shedding Christians and Muslims, everyone who's hands are free of blood, who have served their fellow man all their life without asking for anything, they go to be with God directly, or just outside of His realm. God of course is in the highest vibrational state.

That's my view of the afterlife, and it seems to be supported by the experiences of many who have projected and traveled the astral planes. And this new viewpoint of mine, to not see Heaven as the ultimate goal, should show how someone can become a Christian, decide one day that the religion is too narrow minded, but keep the beliefs (since so far there has been no reason to discard them) and open oneself to the views of other religions.

Because the reality is that what we humans define as reality isn't really real at all. It is dominated by our senses. I know, even though I can not really prove it, that there is more out there, much more. And I fully intend to explore the furthest reaches of whatever is out there to be with the one I love.
- DreamBliss

Berserk2 wrote on May 31^st, 2012 at 11:03pm:


Anything you read between the pages of the Bible or hear about in the average church qualifies as "Christian Beliefs." They are, in general and no specific order, that:
1. God created the Heaven's and Earth.

2. God is male, has a Son, Jesus, and a Spirit, the Holy Spirit, otherwise referred to as the Trinity.

3. You have to believe in Jesus Christ, that He died on the cross for your sins, in order to be saved. This is generally done through a prayer of salvation (oddly enough it's not in the Bible.)

4. There are two places to go when you die. Heaven and Hell. That's it. So everything you read about astral planes is either a huge deception of Satan, which if you think about it would be impossible, because Satan would have to be as powerful as God to create such an illusion, and as evil is inherently destructive, it should also destroy anything it creates, so you have to get past that. Of course the other option is that "it's all in your head." Of course how could everything in your head be the same things recorded since Mr. Fox about 50 years ago, continuing to Monroe, Buhlman, Moen, and others from all walks of life and religions. I read a cool book by a black NASA engineer, Albert Taylor, called "Soul Flight" (as I recall.) I also read one about a Christian woman who claims to have been electrocuted, thrown through a wall, and been dead for 30 minutes or something like that. I have read Monroe and Buhlman, and am reading Moen. Everything they all say seems to be a same place. So how could that place be in everyone's head at once?

5. You have to believe you are an evil sinner in need of saving. You have to ask forgiveness for your sins every night, or else. Of course this doesn't make sense either. If you tell yourself something long enough you'll believe it, right? By focusing on the negative in yourself you only increase the negative. I stopped doing that months ago. Now I simply ask forgiveness for any sin that I can't think of at the moment. Most of the time just some possible disrespect or blasphemy. Oddly enough I am sinning less now that I ever have in my whole life. Weird huh? Of course my love, my wife (who is not of this world or human, so to most Christians she is either demonic or I'm delusional), has affected many of these changes in me herself.

6. Blood for sin. For some reason sin is more powerful than God. It has to be paid for, with blood. Like some sort of eternal loanshark it roams the waters of eternity and demands that anyone who sin let it take a bite. So God got tired of that and sent his Son into shark infested waters, to be eaten alive and whole, and now, if we believe what He did and receive the free gift of salvation we will never have to feel the teeth of the consequences of sin. Something like that. Smells like Catholicism to me, self-flagellation anyone?

Now I do apologize to anyone I have offended by any of these statements. I do not seek to hurt or offend. I do intend to get your attention and cause you to think, but that's all. I'm supposed to touch the positive seeds in myself and others. I'm afraid I may fail a little her. But my intentions are loving at their root. I used to be a slave to the Christian faith. I got free, started to think for myself, and now simply want to help anyone else who desires it do the same.
- DreamBliss

[Dream Bliss:] Of course my love, my wife (who is not of this world or human, so to most Christians she is either demonic or I'm delusional), has affected many of these changes in me herself.

Dream Bliss, you say your wife is not a discarnate human?  So did you marry an extraterrestrial alien? 

btw What type of help did hope to receive on this site?  I gather that you used to post under another handle. 

What if it could be demonstrated that much of what you posted about Christianity is unbiblical?  What if your vision of spiritual truth could be demonstrated as much closer to biblical Chrisitianity than you imagine?  Would your even want to have that demonstrated for you to your satisfaction?

Water Creature, what if you could be convince that the basic premise of the movie, "What Dreams May Come" is basic biblical Christianity," except the cheezy ending about reincarnating and find each other in New Jersey?

Water Creature,

Could you clarify the nature of your relationship with your discarnate lover? In New Age terms, it sounds like you are saying that you have an astral lover from prior incarnations, but not from this lifetime.  If so, did you encounter him initially through astral travel?  If not, it sounds like you are uniquely in touch with your animus, the Jungian term for a woman's inner masculine archetype, which serves as her guide to the unconscious and spiritual experience.  The make equivalent in the anima or inner feminine.  Is it possible that you have mistaken one for the other?  The way to tell is through Jungian dream interpretation. 

Don

Hi Water Creature,

It has been difficult for me and, I think most of us to understand this, but while you may have a special connection to another ( a male for example), your individual nature and foundation in love is not based on a connection to a single person.

I do think that we may have special spiritual connections - soul mates (if you will), but that ultimately the goal of spiritual awareness will force us to transcend those connections as we realize that love is a state of being and is not dependent on reciprocation (though it is welcomed).  Don has pointed out that in order to have a state of love, there is usually a person who must by definition love another (i.e. love is relational).  Yet, due to recent difficulties in my own life, I am beginning to realize, that love is a foundational state of being, and while relational - not at all dependent on the other person to  exist.  We either act and think out of a loving state and allow it to flow, or we don't.  Much heartache seems to come on the earth plane when lovers attach demands, control, and reciprocity on their loved ones, not realizing that love demands none of this, and the expectations of reciprocity can get in the way.

Matthew

  I agree it's often helpful to move out of limited, narrow, and especially indoctrinated beliefs and belief systems, but perhaps sometimes we too quickly throw the baby out with the bath water? 

  Meaning, i don't call myself a "Christian" and there are many religious beliefs i don't believe and other beliefs i do have which aren't part of any organized Christian belief systems, but through internal guidance and experience i've learned that the one called Jesus was the most spiritually mature and intune Consciousness to live in the Earth so far as a fellow human and that a open look and focus on his example and pattern can only be helpful as long as one doesn't fall into belief system traps associated with specific sects, dogma, groups etc.

  Does one necessarily need to look at or consider this particular example to grow, no, but it's been my experience in a number of lives now, that a focus on same can help speed up one's own growth patterns provided one actually tries to live like he did and does. 

  It is a deep and repeated intuition that i've had that we can grow and choose to become just like him, fully and completed attuned to Source and fully consciously aware of the Oneness of life ("physical" and "nonphysical").  Others have completed this process, both in this and especially other systems.

  Along those lines, i've been told by those who have completed this process, that we don't lose all individuality or sense of self when this process is complete, as some believe--just that we know ourselves to be ourselves and yet fully One with all others at the same time. 

  Along the lines that Matthew was more trying to subtly point out, holding on too much to any kind of special relationship or connection with just one being, will and can only limit ones own growth towards that ideal and very destiny of all. 

   I'm fortunate to be in a close, partner type relationship with my "Twin Soul" in this inphysical life this time around, but i know that one of the reasons of why i am, is to help increase my awareness of Oneness with others in a more universal sense.  If i and/or she becomes too focused on each other, i get the sense that one of us will be taken out of the equation so to speak.

  There have been plenty of times wherein we have not been together in the same life, or we were but not in the way we have wanted (as lovers).  There were always reasons why, and greater growth was always the goal.  It's difficult to be in that situation, but greater focus on Universal Love always brings healing, greater awareness, and a peace eventually.