MJ,
I don't think that forgiving ourselves, while important to our spiritual growth, will affect our karmic debt balance. Karma, in my understanding, is the law of the universe and is immutable. If you have committed acts in this life that tip the balance against you, then forgiving yourself for them won't change the fact that you will pay for it somehow. But you will feel better about it when it happens!

Not sure I agree, Bardo.  For every action, there is a reaction, but it can manifest in different ways.  Our present life on earth and any afterlife is usually most affected by our belief system and thoughts.  One person's response to negative karma might be that he or she might need to suffer to make amends.  Another might be that he/she might need to work in the service of helping others for a time. 

The idea that karma is a law dictated to us rather than by us is misguided.  Karma simply is; you reap what you sow; but there are many ways of experiencing this. 

M

There could be many cases in which Karma doesn't need to be balanced in the way that was suggested.

Say a man rapes a woman. After he dies he goes through the life review process and eventually forgives himself. The spirit of the lady he raped now abides in a higher realm, she forgived the man who raped her and doesn't need him to balance out any Karma because there is no Karma to balance out. Many cases might play out in this way.

Another situation, for self serving reasons a man starts a cult that a lot of people get involved with.  After he dies the cult continues. After going through his life review he might feel responsible for the people who are still a part of the cult he started.  If he came back to to Earth (through reincarnation) and tried to stop that cult, could he? Probably not.  If millions of people are effected by the cult, would he have to be responsible for how things play out for each person, or would it be a matter of each of them finding freedom from such a false way of believing and therefore no longer being troubled by it?

Consider things from a Disk perspective. One member of a Disk causes problems for a person. That member's Disk sends out a projection to fix the situation. That projection isn't responsible for what took place in the same way the problem causing projection is responsible. When the issue of debt is considered in this way you get a different perspective.

Plus, there might be situations when somebody other than a problem causer is better suited to fix an unwanted situation. It might be better for all concerned that the problem causer does something else. If forgiveness actually took place this would be okay.

We can see examples of this taking place in this World without factoring in the spirit World. One person causes a problem and somebody else fixes it.

Matthew-

I agree with you.  The only thing I would add is that grace under certain circumstances can trump karma.

For example, if I have done things for which I later repent and fully understand that what I did was wrong and I seek forgiveness from those I harmed, it's possible.....not assured....that grace can come into play and wipe the karmic slate clean.  If my character has changed and I am no longer the person I once was, I hardly think karma would be needed.

Whether karma is immutable or not depends, I think, on the individual and whether "payback" is the only way the person can fully understand what he did was wrong. 

A loving parent would not insist that his child experience retribution for something the child did unless the child showed no contrition or understanding re. his transgressions.

I don't think a loving creator would be any less forgiving.

R

  Again, i completely agree with Bardo.  What "Karma" really is, is that part of us that knows we are connected to all others within a Oneness.  It's a part of us that feels "bad" or "guilty" when we do not live up to the Law of Love in relation to others.  Karma is not always balanced or redressed in such a literal and direct way of "an eye for an eye, or a tooth for a tooth".   

  Perhaps an experience of my own might illustrate the true nature of Karma.  Around when i was 16 or so, i had a very vivid dream about viewing a very large "Library", and viewing two "men" communicating.  One man, i knew to be part of myself, and the other a "guide" of sorts.  The other man, who appeared older and wise, handed us a large book.  When my other self opened the book, we started viewing a very real looking, 3D movie, which was another life of ours.  As we were watching it, we started to directly experience this other life in fast motion and saw/experienced the main or most important parts of that life.

  A not so nice and Light attuned life of ours.  Long story short, the man was a white trapper/pioneer type in early, early American history.  While walking through the woods, he got mauled by a bear, but the bear didn't completely kill him and left him dying there.  A half Native American, half White woman, who was unusually psychic and also her tribes main "healer", found him and nursed him back to life.  That's mostly what i remembered from the dream.  When the wise, guide type closed the book and looked at us, he asked, "Cayce, don't you think you had the awareness within you at the time?"   We felt a sense of chagrin when he asked us this pointed question.

About a decade later, i met a lady on an astrology forum whom i became friends with and we had a lot of similar beliefs and perspectives about life, and i also found out there were some unusual "coincidences" between us.   One was, that despite that i was living in VA and she in MA, when we started talking and becoming friends, she lived literally about 10 minutes away from where i had previously lived in MA for some years. 

   A couple months into our internet friendship, her husband whom she was really close to, died out of the blue from an accident on the job.  She was devastated and became very depressed and despondent and only started talking and thinking about death, grief, etc. for a long while.   I spent many an hour on the phone with her, listening to her and trying to be there for her and keep her spirits up and help her see things from a more expanded perspective.  It wasn't easy because, her energy became so, so heavy and dark. 

  I cannot begin to describe though, the strong inner sense of duty and responsibility i felt towards her and while other friends abandoned her because they couldn't deal with it anymore, i stuck with her. 

  We decided to meet up in person since i was going to be visiting friends and family up in MA anyways and would be very close to where she was.  When we were hanging out in person, during a lull in our conversation, i started to all of a sudden remember that dream i had had a decade before very vividly.  Not only did i remember the dream, but i started to get vivid impressions filling in the parts that the dream didn't cover. 

I knew that she had been that half Native American, half White woman who was psychic and a healer in that life. I became aware that after she had nursed me back to life, we had begun a romantic relationship. Part of our draw together was that we both didn't feel completely accepted by our respective peoples, she by her Native American tribe and i by my fellow whites.  Anyways, long story short, my ahole self ended up hurting her a lot emotionally in that life.

  After this flood of impressions, i didn't know what to do or say to her. I decided to just kind of feel it out and ask her related questions.  I asked her how she felt about healing, Native American culture, etc.  When she said that she had definite interests in all these areas, i decided to just completely open up and tell her about my earlier dream and the flood of impressions i had received about this other life, though i did not tell her of the specific identity of the first man/self i had viewed in that dream (Edgar Cayce who was talking to the older, wiser, "guide" figure). 

  When i finished telling all this, truly did her mouth "drop" and her face blanch some.  She took some time to collect her feelings and thoughts, and she proceeded to tell me that many years before our friendship, her spiritual mentor- a lady much older than herself decided to get her an unusual birthday present.  Her older friend, had a likewise older friend who had been involved with the A.R.E. for many years and use to give "past life" Readings.  She was retired now from this work, but agreed to give my friend a reading as a favor to their mutual friend. 

   Two lives were most focused and concentrated.  One was when she had been a half white, half Native American woman in the early American period, and she had been an unusual healer and unusually psychic in that life.  She became romantically involved with a white man, who ended up hurting her a lot and she became bitter and grudge holding towards him and to white men in general.  The sensitive very specifically told her, "you two will meet later in this life, for you have unfinished business together." 

  Needless to say, this experience convinced me and her personally of the truth of other lives, of karma, etc.  For, it explained why i felt such an intense duty and responsibility to be there for her during her time of challenge, and in a sense i tried to "nurse her back to life", as she had done to me so long ago, and meanwhile rectify how i had treated her so poorly. 

   We pay for every unkind thought, every unkind and unloving action, not as punishment, but as stimulating growth back to our Wholeness and Oneness.  People don't like to hear this, for they think of all their past and current unloving thoughts and actions in relation to others, and it's a bit overwhelming and upsetting to self to really think about and believe.  I had probably forgiven self by this point, yet i needed to redress this karma by positive and loving interaction. 

P.S., this intensely and holistically verified experience about the truth of other lives, and karma, was also doubly verified, because while i had this dream before i consciously knew it, later on, i found out in researching Edgar Cayce's work more in-depth, that both these lives and specific conditions were outlined in depth for Edgar Cayce and another woman he knew, who had been that half Native American and half White healer, psychic woman that he had had a romantic relationship with and had hurt a lot emotionally. 

   

Justin:

Perhaps we should consider what you described through the Disk viewpoint, which shouldn't be too far out of a thing to do considering the owner of this forum.

The Indian lady's Disk and your Disk each had a lifetime where some interpersonal relationships didn't work out so well. So perhaps each Disk sent out another projection with the thought that these projections would work things out.

It might've been possible to work things out in the spirit World, but your Disks wanted to send out some more projections and figured they might as well do so in a way that would enable you and that lady to work out your Disks' psychological issues. They might've had the extra incentive of providing you with a way to find out about Cayce connections. I figure the experiences you described mean a lot to you, even though some people might scoff at them.

In some cases (even Cayce cases ) life in this World might be better at providing the emotional learning experiences a soul needs than the spirit World provides.

Ok, this sounds silly, but once, I was on a plane to Boston when I was 16.  I was by myself.  At the time, I probably looked about 13.  A beautiful woman sat down next to me. I felt like I knew her.  I was instantly drawn to her (but then again, boys at 16....).  Anyway, I was shy.  She kept looking at me, and finally said I looked very....familiar.  She felt she knew me.  Did I have an older brother.  We talked, and I told her I was looking at colleges and she mentioned she was a nurse, and that she felt connected to me, but we both agreed that we never could have possibly met, due to our ages, etc. 

I felt that there was some connection, be it disc, karma, past life, whatever.   But that was all.  We didn't stay in touch (it probably would have seemed inappropriate).  But both of us recognized "something" about the other that was - intimate - recognition - the I know you, you are part of me feeling.