Hi MJ

It may be possible that we have differing definitions of Karma, hence the confusion.  In my view it is very popular these days to see only the actions one takes and the results of those actions.  This, in my opinion is not Karma, rather they are moral judgments that people attribute to Karma.  Karma is not so uncomplicated, and it goes much deeper.  It is directly related to our consciousness, our inner being.

I don't think there's a single person that has never been abused or that hasn't abused someone else at one time or another.  The underlying cause for abuse is fear.  The fear of powerlessness is the most common, so the person tries to cover his/her fear with power over someone in a weaker position than they are.  However, this Karmic pattern developed in childhood.  While not all children of parental abuse become abusers themselves, it is common for the abused to become an abuser.  A child, being in a weaker position feels powerless.  The child learns to become a bully in school, may even become like the person that would participate in your example above to gang rape, and if one day has children, in turn will abuse them.  This is a karmic pattern that developed from an underlying fear.  There are innumerable karmic patterns.  The above is only one example, but the negative ones always have one or more underlying fears and it is the fear that needs to be healed in order for the karmic pattern to change.

In my previous post I mentioned another determining factor is the quality of consciousness we are born with.  The abused becomes abuser example above could be a young soul without much experience and therefore has a lower quality of consciousness to work with.  There are what appears to be positive effects to this young soul in that he/she is somewhat successful in covering the fear of powerlessness in that the "power over" another gives limited pleasure, or positive feedback, so he/she will continue in the developed pattern until they begin to understand there are better ways to evolve and thereby release/heal the originating fear that started the karmic pattern in the first place.

All the interactions in our daily lives offer us the opportunity to react from either love or fear.  How we react is mostly dependent upon the quality of our consciousness, the quality of our being.  A person with a higher quality of being will not always, but is likely to react in more loving ways when confronted with an abusive situation.  For example, in the case of parental abuse, a child born with more loving qualities may react completely opposite than the one that would seek power over another.  There would be an innate understanding and a lack of fear deep within that person.  Therefore it is unlikely they would in turn become an abuser, though a different karmic pattern develops.  One that is beneficial to their spiritual growth.

I know I've only barely brushed the surface in this explanation because there are so many possible scenarios, but I hope this is helpful to you, rather than causing more confusion.

Kathy

Perhaps related to what MJD and Kathy were talking about on their last 2 posts. Years ago I watched a daytime talk show that had 3 family members. A mother who was a KKK member, a daughter who was a KKK member, and a son who wasn't.

Despite being subjected to the same racism based mental abuse as his sister, the son didn't become a racist. He was a good vibes person. It seemed as if his soul was wiser than his sister's soul.

Perhaps there was a synchronicity in this, I hardly ever watched daytime TV back then (I still don't), yet the next time I watched that show sometime later, the same people were on the show.  For the mother and daughter, watching themselves on TV was like looking at themselves in the mirror.  They were able to see how wrong they were with their ignorant racist words.

<<The abused becomes abuser example above could be a young soul without much experience and therefore has a lower quality of consciousness to work with.>>

Kathy-

How does a young soul acquire experience?  I presume you mean that occurs in the spiritual plane and not via multiple earthly incarnations?

R

Hi mjd,

As well as soul-age, you seem to have avoided any confusion about who you are (who we all are.)  You (we all) are foremost a soul, a spark of God. You've not let life's experiences keep you from remembering that. I admire you.

Bets