Hello all,

Two years ago, I found this forum during a very low phase of my life where I had terrible panic attacks for several months because I fear so much that there is no soul and no aferlife.

You all helped me a lot through your kindness and intelligent thoughts and for a time, it all became better although I admit it never went away completely.

Now very recently, my dearly beloved grandmother passed away.This threw me quite a bit. Also, I had an operation.

I was quite sad I had not felt the moment of my grandmothers death at all. And during general anaesthesia when I had the operation, I again (like during two other general anaesthesias in my life), I was not "there" at all. I just did not exist. At least, I do not remember anything.

Thosetwo experiences really brought the fear back. For if it is possible to "not exist" at all, for me, there really is compelling reason to believe that once my brain is gone in death,I will just be "switched off" forever.

I know some of you do not fear that, but for me, it is a very terrible thing and also makes this life meaningless, random and sad. Yes, I know I want to love others and make their life better anyway, but it is still terrible to think there could be no "higher purpose" to anything and I will just not be forever, just as I dont remeber being before being born.

Can you help me out again? Any ideas that could help?

Thank you. And I hoe you do not feel annoyed. This is not meant to be a "prove it" attack, I dont like these either, it is just a plea for help.

Chris

Chrwe,

Anesthestic agents almost always cause retrograde amnesia.  One called Versed and Propofol are notorious.  These days, when doctors perform colonoscopy, they use them, and let me tell you, you are guaranteed to remember nothing of the experience.  Even if the procedure caused discomfort.  That is why, when my time comes for one of these screening procedures, I am going to ask for the lightest sedation possible.  Not that I'm a masochist, but I prefer not to be that "out." 

When we sleep, we are somewhere else, yet we usually carry only early impressions of the dream into memory.  If we write it down immediately on wakening we can hold it, but within minutes after wakening, most dreams are forgotten.  Did we not exist when we were asleep?  I don't think so. 

In order to lose your fear of nonexistence, you have to have some personal experience that proves to you that you are more than your physical body.  Some of the exploration with hemi-sync recommended at TMI or Bruce's exploration methods gives people this personal "knowing." 

For me, it is not an issue.  I am convinced the conscious thought is primary or has primacy, and that the physical world is a secondary process.  And I have medical training, so I know quite a bit about the limits that science and medicine have in interpreting consciousness. 

M

Hi Chrwe,

I agree with what Doc wrote.  Also, just using a nice hemi-sync or Metamusic CD for a few days, like during a nap, gives your brain the opportunity to find balance which is great help for balancing emotional states.  The synchronization of both hemispheres of the brain seems to me to be conducive to achieving what you want to experience, some spiritual expanded awareness....but more down to earth than that it also is conducive to mental and physical calming and relaxation which should help you feel more "refreshed" all around.

As far as your OBE attempts, I always suggest that you don't focus on physical proof tactics.  It's the wrong focus.  It's not that it doesn't work, but it shifts your "attention" to the area of proof in a specific form which is too narrow a focus.  Keeping a broader, open mind about OBEs will give you the opportunity to have, recognize, and remember your OBE's. 

We naturally already have them whether we remember them or not.  So your focus of attention should really only be on setting intention to remember your next OBE.  Be persistent, patient, and keep practicing...those 3 "P" words are great.

Quickly, I'd like to share an anesthesia experience I had.  I was in surgery for having a tumor removed from my lung.  Upon first awakening I could hear my parents talking to each other, hear word for word what their conversation was.  It was so clear I just assumed that they were standing in the room I was in.  It made me upset that here I was in this condition, scared, and in pain, and they were just casually talking as if they didn't have a care in the world.  Several minutes later my parents walked up to my bedside, smiled, said hello, the usual.  I asked them why they didn't come to me sooner, why they had just stood there talking about my 5-year-old nephew and how he'd wanted them to set up the camping tent, and how they couldn't remember how to do it, etc.  My parents were shocked and asked how I knew what they had talked about.  I told them I heard them, but they said that was impossible.  The waiting area was on the other side of the hospital....no way that I could have physically heard them!

It was proof enough to me that the effects of the anesthesia had made me have an OBE, even though I didn't feel I had gone anywhere.  I had a similar experience while being under during dental surgery.  I was sound asleep but remained "awake" and aware during the entire procedure.  My proof?  I had stopped breathing and they had to put me on oxygen.  When they told my mom I wasn't breathing on my own, she fainted.  I saw it happen!  When I finally came around I was so concerned about my mom, the first thing I said was, "Is my mom ok?  Why did she faint?"  The dentist was shocked and wondered how in the world I could have known that.  He said I was sound asleep thru that. 

Those were my anesthesia experiences.  You feeling "nothing" as if gone, and not having memory sounds normal and typical.  So I don't think you should feel worry or base beliefs on your "typical" experience. 

I'll send you a PM with some of my personal OBE tips in case you're interesed in trying them. 

Having thought about this question, this kind of fear, I believe that the 'fear' is real enough, because you feel it. But, think of this, are there not many parts of your life that you do not recall at this moment, that, if I were to give your memory a 'nudge', would come back to you, especially if I were to give you a sensory clue, to stimulate that memory? So, the memory is not really lost. It is there, but merely dormant.

So, rather than fearing that you might not 'exist' at all, perhaps you can transform this fear into the lesser one, that of being in a 'dormant' stage. If you think about it that way, you can look to nature for an example of hope. Bear witness to the transformation of what was a 'poor' creature into a butterfly. How miraculous!

But, a process. So, what you may encounter after death may also be a process, not an ending which is complete, but a new beginning. If you do not entirely understand it, that really does not matter, does it, if the end result is so beautiful? Just a thought.

Hello Betson,

how nice to hear of you again .

Thank you all for your kind answers and thoughts. They really gave me some new lanes to think about. And Vicky, I`ll try again with your kind guidance, although I sometimes think I have some sort of barrier against all intentional OBEs and other paranormal experiences.

Although, in my eyes, there is no such thing as paranormal . Not because it is not possible that things happen that we cannot explain yet, but because everything will have an explanation and cause somewhere, somewhen, and we just don`t know it.

DocM, your comment about just having forgotten everything was very interesting, sometime after that I seemed to remember that I did notice some doctors etc. around me before I truly woke up in the waking room. It could just have been the last impressions before falling "asleep" though.

Chris

Hi chrwe,

Not remembering in totality, an event in our lives, such as during an Anaesthetic, really does not mean you did not exist during that blackout period.

Much of our earthly lives are almost totally forgotten by the time we reach maturity or old age (like me) But those complete blanks in your memory or mine, does not mean we did not exist during those forgotten times/moments

By the time we are sixty or seventy years of age we are almost a completely person , from what we were as a child. But the "child you" really existed and the "you now" really exists

We really do not know what thinking is or what consciousness is. But just because for long or short moments we are not conscious or are thinking, we continue to exist and I believe we continue to exist forever

Love

Alan

Hello mjd,

Thank you for relaying this idea to me, and I am indeed familiar with the concept. Unfortunately, it helps with every problem in my life and I have always found a solution of some sort except for the concept of this life beng finite in every way (and to my mind, random and senseless if you assume thee is no lasting sould and no reason behind existence). I know many arguments to deal with nothingness. You wont be there to experience it. You wont feel anything. There is no pain. How would one cope with truly living forever? All beings and indeed the univeerse itself share this fate. And so on and so on. I have read many buddhist and atheist texts and talk to smart, kind people. None of that has heped, the concept still gives me panic attacks.  Probably because for almost fourty years, I have been firmly believing that we are here to learn and grow and experience and that when we die, our (indicidual) existence will continue, even though we may forget past experiences for a while. Losing that was, for me, like losing the ground. And it was a quite different life, so the feat has changed my present life a lot

So, this way is not really feasible for me for this particular fear, but I agree that it is a very good technique for all others

Chris

chrwe, you have a pm.