P.S. the overwhelming sense of emotional suffering that i felt from others, the collective, in that dream was truly horrible and heart breaking. 

  It's why i became so upset and angry in this dream.  It's been extremely rare that i experienced this degree of anger before.

   I ask all of you, if you had had this experience and felt and knew these things, what would you do with this knowledge and this concern?   

  I truly would like to know how you all would handle it?

  I suppose it might just be easier to write me off as an unbalanced megalomaniac, ahole, or the like, but what about the fact that McKnight, Monroe, Cayce, Brown, Dr. John E. Mack, Mark Aubrey, Recoverer, and others beside myself have clearly addressed this issue to some degree or extent?

  Hi given,

  I understand what you are saying, but i don't associate a temporary experience and feeling of anger with needing to be healed.  My teacher, the Mentor of mentors, occasionally experienced and displayed a similar kind of anger and occasionally acted strongly out of same. 

   Remember him flipping over the money handlers/merchants tables and driving them out of the Temple? 

   Fire has it's place, as he clearly showed, and there has been no example as "perfect" as him, since then. He was "Emmanuel", God in the flesh.  We can become like him, if we choose and live like he did and does.   Even Buddha didn't quite attain to what he did.  Buddha was too Yin in his life and has been in the process of full integration and balancing since then in the nonphysical.  Because you are more Yin yourself, you gravitate more to Buddha and those like him, for ever Like attracts, begets, resonates with and likes Like. 

  More personally, or to the point: b2 come again...???

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   Interesting take and position.  Yet, it would seem that every nonphysical Guide or Helper, is essentially in the "job" of helping in-physicals convert limiting beliefs and perceptions into more free and expanded ones. 

  There is no personal selfish "need" driving them to do this, no wish for others to have similar beliefs as them for the sake of that, but only a need to see their brothers and sisters get out of their suffering, expand and liberate themselves. 

  We are individual, but we are One, and those most attuned to PUL within and who are most free themselves, must help to liberate those who are stuck, but to do so with positive intentions and trying to be constructive.  It's a very "Yang" and active endeavor.  For when one is truly remembering their Oneness with Source and with the Whole, one truly begins to really deeply feel the suffering of others and it hurts self just as much as it hurts the others.

Things will not work out on their own or if it does, it will take quite an extremely, extremely, extremely long time, as stuckness is such an issue with some individual Disks and groups, and we all influence each other to some degree or another.   

  Rather, The Whole, is in the process of healing Itself and truly becoming Whole. 

  Yet, for some reason, you think and feel yourself wiser, more aware and enlightened than those who have clearly lived rather different lives and had different views than self. 

  One of the things that this hindering E.T. group does, is to "meditate" if you will, as a collective, on individual humans that are more psychically sensitive and mature in consciousness.  They put forth much effort to injecting limiting thoughts and feelings into that person's psyche, in order to not only have a limiting influence on that individual, but through that individuals influence or connection to the Whole, to have a limiting influence on others. 

  One method they particularly enjoy employing, for they have found it quite effective, is to use partial truths wrapped in the guise of "spiritual teachings".  "Spiritual teachings" that incline us to be over passive and Yin in this whole healing of the Whole endeavor. 

  This is why i would recommend to everyone here, to call on the highest Divine help and specifically ask to be shielded from any outside, negatively intentioned, interfering forces.  Our own "egos" are enough to deal with and handle, without having to deal with their interference. 

  I have asked for such help for self, and it has helped in my own awakening and attunement to PUL.  This is why i am so aware of factors that are unconscious to most.  PUL attunement automatically expands perception to include more and more of the Whole and Reality as is,  not as we would like it to be. 

  I am trying to liberate others from these outside interferences, having once been influenced myself and having become wise to their ways and methods through direct experience and direct guidance. 

  Please help my Teacher, the Creative Forces (including Buddha), and me, for we also need voices more gentle and Yin than my own, sometimes too strident and masculine voice.  I ask not for myself, but for the sake of the Whole, and especially for humanity.
 

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  Have you mastered this art?  I have not mastered this art, but i have practiced much listening to voices far wiser and aware than self.  I have asked, time and time again in my meditations, "I deeply desire and ask to receive help and guidance from only the most Source and PUL attuned consciousnesses there are." 

   I have certainly not mastered the art to listening to voices and influences less aware and wise than these, for in that path lies limitation of self and through self's influence on others, the Whole.

   You seem to be asking me to listen to your voice on this, and give me a back handed insult when i don't take your advice because i choose to listen to voices far more aware and wise than both of us, more wise and aware than Bruce Moen, Bob Monroe, Tom Campbell and every other teacher here.  You also contradict your own words, by your actions.  Your actions are that of trying to convince me of your higher way of greater passiveness, yet is that not ironic and self contradictory in it's very essence???

  You can't have it "both ways", can you?  I can admit to self, "yes, i'm trying to influence others." because i know where i am coming from in this endeavor and it's not about my little self. 

   I ask you directly and plainly, do you think self wiser and more aware than Yeshua (Jesus)?  Did he not try to influence others to change their beliefs and ways?  Would you or most recognize another teacher like him, if he arose amongst you and challenged the limited beliefs and perceptions around him?

   Probably not, and like many in his day did with him, you would probably debate with and insult him. 

Such is the way of this world, until some 1,000 years from now when all will be like Yeshua. 



      

You are picking a fight, and that is obvious to anyone else who watches you. This is your pattern. That is why I choose not to answer your questions. You are the person who asked the question today, Justin. You initiated the conversation by asking what someone, anyone, everyone here would have done in your shoes. You asked the question. Remember? I answered it, in my own way, and you have proceeded to argue with me and to begin to belittle me by accusing me of various things which may or may not be true. I really don't care. I don't have time for this kind of conversation and I don't have the energy for it, and neither do other people. If you want to make this a personal argument, I refuse to participate in it. That is all I'm going to say, period.

This is the kind of conversation which causes me to reconsider joining this forum. There is no point in trying to calmly and pleasantly give a person their point of view if this kind of railroading behavior with numerous mishandled quotes from multitudes of other historical figures and living people result.

It is a waste of your time and mine. That is why I choose silence.

In fact, I think it is a good idea for me to leave this forum for good. There is no point to this. As much as I love the people here, it is probably a much wiser idea for me to simply leave.

I accept that this was my mistake, returning here, trying to answer questions in my own way. It would be better for me to leave you to your own wisdom, because there seems to be so very much of it.

Thank you for listening and allowing me to let you know how belittled and ridiculous I feel for joining this forum again. Goodbye.



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  given, others are not responsible for your emotions and how you feel just because they disagree with your beliefs and perceptions and impersonally state these for a higher reason.   

  Perhaps others will fall for this kind of emotional manipulation, but i won't.  I have lived with women with very strong Cancer in their birth charts and i know this tendency well.  I know you well, and i remember last time you canceled your account and it wasn't because of me, but because some dude A SPAMMER shared an offensive picture and you dramatically left in a huffy puff ranting about this forum and the degradation of women.

  You take things far to personal. 

  You know you only answered my question to try to "teach" me your way of greater passiveness.  I said i don't play that game and explained why, and i cited the example of the most intune and PUL attuned teacher to explain my reasoning.   

  And now you are boo hooing, throwing a tantrum, and trying to manipulate others of the group to take sides with you in your intolerance of me--my ways, my perceptions, etc. which are different than yours. 

The only difference between us, is that i'm not trying to shut you up, like you are indirectly doing with me.

recoverer wrote on Mar 28^th, 2012 at 3:01pm:

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@Justin:

"Please help my Teacher, the Creative Forces (including Buddha), and me, for we also need voices more gentle and Yin than my own, sometimes too strident and masculine voice.  I ask not for myself, but for the sake of the Whole, and especially for humanity."

Justin. Is your primary Teacher, the 'Teacher of the Angels', Jesus Christ?