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God - Love - Fear (Read 6114 times)
Oliver
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God - Love - Fear
Mar 9th, 2012 at 2:27am
 
Can anyone solve the following conundrum?

In the Christian Bible we are told that we shall fear God.
It is also told that God is Pure Unconditional Love.
It is a matter of fact that fear and love don't go together.

When being in a state of fear, you can't simultaneously be in a state of love, and vice versa. If you don't believe that, try it out yourself:
Put yourself in a state of fear by vividly imagining fear, then rest, then put yourself in a state of love by vividly imagining pure unconditional love, then rest, then try to put yourself in a state where you can feel both vivid fear and pure unconditional love simultaneously.
You'll probably find that they are antagonistic, the more fear the less love, the more love the less fear.
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Lights of Love
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #1 - Mar 9th, 2012 at 10:57am
 
Hi Oliver,

In the Bible "fear" means respect.

Kathy
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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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Oliver
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #2 - Mar 9th, 2012 at 6:30pm
 
Hi Kathy,

why then are the Hebrew and Greek words translated into English as "fear" instead of "respect"?

Maybe a dictionary for the Bible would be a good thing to have then, which would translate the "nasty" words into "nice" words.
It might be also good to have a book with comments on all the "nasty" stories in the Bible, so that any reader of the Bible can interpret them in a positive way. That sort of book would have to comment on most Bible chapters.
If you know of such a resource, I would very much appreciate it, honestly.

In my search for "bible interpretation", I just came across something that I want you to consider seriously, please don't close your eyes or shy away from it, look at it and read the Bible, just like someone who doesn't know the Bible and Christian religion and reads it for the first time.
This is only an example I came across, I'm not behind it, and I'm not defending it in any way, please look at it without prejudice:
http://drunkwithblood.com/
I can find lots of other examples, and I can quote from the Bible as many passages as you want to underpin these questions.
I'm not an enemy of the Bible or of Christian faith. In fact, I've just recently become a member of a Christian church (it is similar, but more moderate, as the Catholic church), and that is why I'm deeply interested in understanding it. Why have I become member of that Christian church? Because I was told so by God, you might say, others may call it inspiration by Angels, or by Higher Forces which I can't name and don't know about in detail, I receive inspirations, it is like intuition, but more forceful, like commands, and intuitive visions.

Oliver
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Lights of Love
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #3 - Mar 9th, 2012 at 7:31pm
 
About 35 years ago I taught an intensive 2 year Bible study called The Bethel Series that covered both Old and New Testaments. If you really want a good overview and understanding of the Bible, I'd recommend this series, which is taught at many churches regardless of denomination.  For more info see the link to their website below.

Unfortunately all of my books were lost in a fire a few years ago.  I know I had some that might be of interest, however, I don't remember any of the titles. You might want to pm Berserk2 (Don) and ask him if he could recommend something for you.

http://www.bethelseries.com/home.aspx

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Oliver
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #4 - Mar 9th, 2012 at 7:51pm
 
sorry, I looked at the link but could not find any information on Bible interpretation there.

Btw, have you examined the points that the author of http://drunkwithblood.com/ makes? Yes, I know, he gets emotional about God's killings, nevertheless the points are there, how to answer them?
I came across the same problems as that author when reading the Bible, I read of nasty things in almost every chapter, it makes my stomach cramp.
I'm a scientific-minded person, it is not an easy option for me to ignore blatantly obvious material.
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Lights of Love
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #5 - Mar 9th, 2012 at 10:28pm
 
Oliver, the Bible outlines the history of people.  Except for traditions, culture, etc. people thousands of years ago are not much different than people in today's world.  Don't you watch the news? 

Reading sources such as the website you linked to is just plain unreliable.  If you are truly interested in the Bible pm Don (Berserk2) as he has dedicated his life to Bible studies and has far more credentials than anyone who would publish a website such as the one in that link.
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Oliver
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #6 - Mar 10th, 2012 at 5:22am
 
Lights of Love wrote on Mar 9th, 2012 at 10:28pm:
Oliver, the Bible outlines the history of people.  Except for traditions, culture, etc. people thousands of years ago are not much different than people in today's world.  Don't you watch the news? 

Reading sources such as the website you linked to is just plain unreliable.  If you are truly interested in the Bible pm Don (Berserk2) as he has dedicated his life to Bible studies and has far more credentials than anyone who would publish a website such as the one in that link.

The Bible clearly states that these deeds in the Bible have been done by God, not by the people.
The web source may be unreliable, but you can look it up in any common Bible version. Is the Bible then also unreliable? Would it help if I give you Bible quotations? If it would help the case, I can give you some.

How about this for a starter:
NKJV Dt 32:42 Quote:
"I will make My arrows drunk with blood,
And My sword shall devour flesh,
With the blood of the slain and the captives,
From the heads of the leaders of the enemy."


The problem here is: What sort of God was that who did all these things that are described in the Bible OT? Certainly not the PUL God that we believe in now.
Did the people in those times then only "think" it was God who did that, when in fact it was Satan?
Or did the people just ascribe to God all those deeds where those deeds were either done by people or by natural forces?

Is and was this God of the OT the one and same God of the NT, the God of Jesus?
If these narrative stories of the OT are to be taken literally, which I guess they are, then this would indicate a very cruel God, not an all-loving God at all.

Btw, Don backed out of those type of questions from me in another thread already, and why PM when it can be openly discussed in the forum, since it is of wider interest to many here?
And I don't care about credentials, I care about answers. If an uneducated beggar in the streets can give me a satisfying answer, I regard him higher than a professor of religious studies who can't.

So here is the challenge, don't back out, answer in your own words - or admit defeat in the debate, as in good old theological tradition.
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Lights of Love
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #7 - Mar 10th, 2012 at 10:25am
 
Hi Oliver,

In your initial post you asked a question and I answered it to the best of my knowledge. In another post you asked for books/resources to help you understand the Bible. As I mentioned, all of my books on the subject matter were destroyed, so I can't help you.

If you are a member of a church, why then don't you talk with your pastor about starting a Bible study to help you find answers to your questions?  Or go to a Christian book store and ask for recommendations if you don't want to ask Don to recommend a book or two.

I never intended to get into a debate with you.  Nor am I interested in this topic of discussion.

I wish you well in finding your own answers.

Kathy
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Oliver
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #8 - Mar 10th, 2012 at 1:54pm
 
Hi Kathy,

since first messages in this thread and after your initial one with your link, I did some research and found resources on bible interpretation, and I found the website of the person who did extensive research about God's reported killings in the Bible.
Since then my perspective has deepened. I know more now about the Christian belief system. It mainly consists of avoidance of the contents of the Bible when possible. It is also based on hierarchical authoritative system of priesthood. Ordinary church members are disencouraged from interpreting the Bible on their own, they are meant to be indoctrinated by their superiors.

About the pressing questions:

Problem is no one answers. Christians evade the questions and close their minds because they cannot answer and they are fearful and protective of their faith in the Bible.

I need answers to resolve the contradictions, can anybody help?
I started reading the Bible, but it gives me the creeps.
I feel like lost in a demonic world, where people pretend not to see the obvious.
No one is talking, ears shut, eyes shut, mouth shut.

Tell me, how do you interpret Dt 32:40?

I can predict your answer (if any answer at all, it will consist of avoidance, just as before). You better keep your eyes shut and avoid the pitfalls of openmindedness on the narrow path.
I wish you well.

Oliver
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Bardo
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Re: God - Love - Fear
Reply #9 - Mar 11th, 2012 at 1:30pm
 
The Cannon was assembled during a time of Roman dominance in the Middle East. The Jews were suffering greatly under Roman oppression.  If you want to understand the historical relationship between the books that made it into the Bible and those that did not (the Gnostic Gospels among others), then I recommend Elaine Pagels. Look her up and read what she has to say.  She is not a theologian, and treats the material in the context of history as well as the beliefs of those who wrote it. The book of Revelation can realistically be interpreted as a tale of revenge against the Roman oppressors.
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