What is your views on this?

And does is not prove the existance of satan?

jdee190 wrote on Mar 4^th, 2012 at 6:09pm:



Jdee. Read "Remarkable Healings" 1997 by Dr.S Modi M.D. It's a Hamptons Roads book, the same publishers that Moen uses. It's not a Christian book, more a new age book. Dr.Modi, a medical practitioner who specializes in psychiatry, uses hypnosis in her private practice to retrieve earthbound souls trapped in the patient, and also releasement into the light of demonic entities.

According to Dr.Modi these earthbounds and demonics, plus other types of spirits, were causing many physical and mental illnesses in her patients, reflecting back onto their families and friends. She also retrieved soul fragments that were lost to the patients during traumas in their childhood and later adult life. She says that the demonics capture many of these soul fragments and use them as a cord-link back to their original soul-owner. They use this link to create more problems for that person.

Dr.Modi also engages in past-life regression therapy as she finds it goes hand in hand with her retrieval work. This is a groundbreaking book that surpasses any book on retrieval work anywhere and by anyone. I was totally blown away by the information in this book. All the information in this book is taken from her patients case files. The book is 631 pages long. Here's a snippet from the end.

  "Over the years, I worked with different patients coming from different cultures, religious beliefs, and educational backgrounds. Under hypnosis, amazingly, most of them gave a similar description of the universe, its structure, and the beings who inhabit it.

  My patients, under hypnosis, say that there is a huge light. In this light resides a supreme being they call "God." They describe this supreme being as a mountain of light, a pyramid of light or an ocean of light and love. They call him "the one," "the all," "the whole," "the God," "all there is," etc.

  Next to this supreme being there are other large souls whom they call Godheads, masters, or oversouls. They recognize these beings as religious figures in different religions around the world. Next to them are angels and other beings of the light. Patients say that from God descend the Godheads, also called masters or oversouls. and from them, humans and all other souls descend. The Godheads, angels, and beings of other worlds also reside all around God.

My patients describe seeing many silver cords coming out of God and going to humans and all other beings throughout the creation through the Godheads. Patients describe God as a powerhouse to whom all living beings in the whole creation are connected with the silver cords.

  Hypnotized patients report that between lives, we humans also reside in the light, where we go through some type of learning and developmental process. In this we seem to be partially aware of who we are and what we are doing. We go through the cycle of birth, life, death, and back to the light(heaven)again and again to learn lessons and grow spiritually. toward our final aim to go back and reunite with the supreme being, God.

  Many of the patients, under hypnosis, also recall their creation and what happened in the light after they were created. They say there was a conflict and a being of the light left and took many light beings with it. According to my patients, these beings are really Satan and his demons, who are working on the earth opposite the purposes of the light. They thwart the light. To mu surprise, even demons recall and give similar information after their transformation into the light.

  Amazingly, my patients, regardless of whether they are religious, agnostic, or atheist, have repeatedly given similar accounts of the reality of the spiritual world as they see and remember it under hypnosis. I wondered if they recalling and describing the truth, or were they all suffering from the same delusion." ...'Remarkable Healings" by Dr.Modi.

What also blew me away was when the demons were going through the transformation to the light, many describe all the methods they use on us humans, and this is vast. They also say that they have many humans, physical and earthbound, in their employ.

They also explain the reason why this powerful light being left the light, took a lot of angels with him, tricked a lot into joining him with false promises of power, etc. When the demons reported seeing the retrieval angels that came for them, they recognized some of the angels and even had names for these angelic helpers.      

 

    

Hi Albert

I actually agree with you on this.

This is kind of a tangent, but I think before we can understand some of this stuff, we first need to understand how the mind works, and that is indeed a work in progress!

Some of this has to do with what ideas we accept as being underlying truths.

Before Newton came up with the idea of gravity, apples still fell to the earth. Did people ask WHY they fell instead of floating? I don't know. But gravity did not exist before Newton invented it. That is because gravity is an idea that explains something. True, apples fell down before Newton, but gravity did not exist before Newton.

I think you hae to understand what I just wrote before you can have a serious discussion about this other stuff. This tells you something important about how the mind works.

Supposedly Emily Rose was possessed by Lucifer, Judas Iscariot, Nero, Cain, Hitler and Fleischmann (a disgraced 16th century Franklin Priest).  I find this really hard to believe. Perhaps people are as off-base when they claim that a person is possessed by Satan.

If one wants to find out who a person is troubled by, perhaps it is best to not have pre-conceived ideas.

Thanks, is there also exorcisms in other religions? Such as Islam?

So these 'demons' or whatever possesses people on earth live? Are they Satans helpers to decieve people on earth so they become non christian and go to hell?

recoverer wrote on Mar 5^th, 2012 at 6:26pm:



So what Jesus taught in the New Testament to his disciples and others about Satan and the Devil, even mentioning that he saw him(lucifer)fall from heaven like lightning, must be a load of bullshit according to you!

I have posted these two family exorcisms before:

(1) My Uncle George was a Pentecostal minister.  One day, he received a frantic call to deal with a possession case.  For some reason I don't recall, he had to take his wife (Ruth) and young son Eldon (age 3--now a psychiatrist) with him.  Aunt Ruth and my young sousin waited outside the lady's home in the car.  The moment George successfully completed her exorcism, little Eldon started to scream relentlessly and uncontrollably.  It seemed that the expelled entity was now trying to possess little4 Eldon.  Soon his eyes rolled up until only the whites were visible.  He was in a deep trance.  Young Eldon knew nothing about possession and exorcism.  Uncle George and Aunt Ruth fervently prayed for Eldon's deliverance, but this took a long time.  Finally, he was free: the screaming stopped and his eyeballs reappeared.  Eldon told me that all he can now recall of this incident is a vision of being safely cradled in the loving arms of Jesus. 

(2) When my brother Doug (now a doctor) was 16, he and I were watching Hockey Night in Canada and badgering our poor mother for more hotdogs and icecream.   Suddenly Doug seemed to drift into a trance.  He told me that God had given him the name and location of E, who was demon-possessed, and God expected Doug to perform the exorcism.  Doug had never talked liked this or performed an exorcism; so his message did not compute.  I jokingly said something like this: "OK, don't be late!"   He left quietly on what would be a 7 1/2 mile bus ride on a cold February night to a downtown coffee house in Winnipeg, Canada. 

When he arrived at the coffee house, nothing seemed unusual and he began to doubt his "message."  But that changed when a stranger walked up to him and said, oddly, "You're here on a special mission, aren't you?"  Shortly thereafter, E showed up outside with a gang of thugs who were challenging people to a fight who wanted to enter the coffee house.  Doug felt prompted to approach E and say, "E, God has shown me that you are possessed and has sent me to exorcise you."  This struck E and his gang as hilarious, and he challenged, "OK, bring it on!"  Now Doug had no idea what to do.  So he merely closed his eyes in prayer and lightly touched E on the forehead.  At this, E fell to the floor like a rock, and began writhing like a serpent.  After a couple of minutes of this, he became quiet amd meekly said, "Thank you!"  E's gang was so scared they converted to Christianity on the spot, but their conversions didn't seem to last. 

I met E but couldn't bring myself to ask him about his exorcism.  E later wrote a book on spirituality and became a Canadian media figure.  I could direct readers to seeing him perform on a website, but will instead protect his privacy.  My brother Doug (who will fly in from Colorado tomorrow to visit me) is now too frightened to even discuss this incident.   

jdee:

There is no reason to draw such a conclusion. People getting possessed doesn't mean that hell exists in the way you are speaking of it.  Berserk is a fan of Emanuel Swedenborg. Swedenborg basically stated that after death we experience according to what we love. If we love negative things we'll go to a realm where negative things exist. If we love positive things such as love and respect for others we'll go to a realm where such things exist.

Once a soul finds itself in a realm it isn't stuck in that realm for all of eternity.  As soon as it wants to ascend to a higher level of being it will get the assistance it needs in order to do so. This isn't an automatic thing. It might have to work on itself some. The more it does the more it will be able to ascend.

I've read some  near-death experiences (and also watched some youtube videos) where people had hell like experiences. Each of them experienced hell in a different way. The manner in which they experienced was partly based on what they expected to experience.  In each case such a person asked for help, received it, and moved on to a positive realm.

I believe Berserk would tell you that Jesus will help souls who want to be helped. Doing so wouldn't be a matter of submitting to Jesus as if he is some power hungry dictator. It would be a matter of being interested in the same beautiful, wonderful and perfected way of existence that he is a part of.

jdee190 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2012 at 8:45am:

jdee:

You're welcome. The fact of how you are seeking to overcome your fear will enable you to do so.  I've found that overcoming a fear can sometimes take time. The more we do the more our experience of life improves. So keep trying and you'll obtain your goal. 

I just heard a story from my uncle about a house in the village he lives in.

They took down a wall in the house when the people moved in and it disturbed a 'demon' . They called in the Church of Scotland minister to perform an exorcism. He did it. However for weeks  there was screaming and doors slamming at night so again they rushed to the minister, he said nothing to do with me ask the Catholic priest.

So they did, he performed a Catholic exorcism and it worked. The house was at peace and the demon was defeated using Catholicism.

What is that all about?

Perhaps it has to do with the spiritual depth and faith of the priest. Not all priests are the same.  Some men become priests because they have a sincere desire to serve God and others.

jdee190 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

Focus27:

If you actually asked for the first thing you said to take place, then I'd say that your discernment on the second matter can't be trusted.

Focus27 wrote on Mar 11^th, 2012 at 6:31am:

Focus27 wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 7:44am:


Focus,

1. As our knowledge of mental illness is pretty much nothing then it can't be said that someone has one with absolute certainty.

The standard diagnosis for depression here in the U.K is to answer a few questions about how you feel on a 1-10 scale and depending on the score you get you are diagnosed with it and prescribed some happy pills.

I would laugh as it could be very funny but as people are dropping like flies due to depression it's not funny at all!

2.Some criminals blame evil spirits, some blame other people, others blame their upbringing, child abuse, poor, blah, blah, blah. Who gives a f what they blame anyway?

Besides most if not all get put into a nuthouses anyway so it's just an excuse to not go into a proper prison.

My straight to the point reply proves that your 2 points neither prove nor disprove spirit possession so we're still getting nowhere  .

Just for the record, I don't believe that spirits can possess us either, that's not to say it's impossible as nothings impossible.

Andy

What about all these films based on true stories? Such as The Devil Inside. Does that not show there is a devil?

[quote author=1E373B2D2B6A6F580 link=1330898993/25#25 date=1331552688]Sure did! Does anyone have any advice for how I can get these non-existing entities to show themselves by taking over my body?

I mean, seriously? Anyone? I mean, no matter how hard I try, nothing happens.
_________________________

You have done the important thing--issuing the invitation.  But demons respond according to their agenda, not yours.  The goal is terror; so the possession occurs gradually and eventually feels like an ambush.  In the real case that inspired the movie "The Exorcist," possession was delayed for quite some time after the boy tried to contact his dead aunt through a Ouija board. 

Look for a sense of menacing shadowy presences shortly after going to bed.  Then look for negative synchornities.  If you survive those, play with a Ouija board for a while and you will begin to receive messages from dark forces.

Focus27:

Regarding the below, don't make the mistake of determining that unfriendly entities can't mess with people simply because you believe there is no conclusive evidence. Maybe Moen hasn't said much about them, but Robert Monroe wrote in Ultimate Journey that unfriendly entities both human and nonhuman have been messing with people in this World for years.


Berserk2 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012 at 11:18pm:

Focus27:

Do you actually believe you can accurately judge what others have experienced better than they have? If so, well I guess your way of thinking is or isn't scientific depending upon what one considers scientific. If one means uninformed narrowmindness it does imply. Many scientists have a difficult time seeing beyond their very limited parameters. They remind me of Sheldon of the Big Bang Theory. He's not as near as smart, or shall I say wise, as he thinks. His limited way of thinking can be quite hokum.

I've had numerous experiences with spirits and in ways where I know it isn't just my imagination.  If you had similar experiences you would understand why it is possible for people to be certain about the existence of spirits.

Through experience I know that unfriendly beings exist. They will try to influence people in different ways. One way might be by trying to get skeptics to get other people to believe that spirits don't exist. If they take such an approach they aren't going to let the people they are influencing know that they are being influenced.

When it comes to free will, people get influenced to the extent they allow themselves to be influenced.

Focus27 wrote on Mar 17^th, 2012 at 4:30pm:

This is one of the fallacies of modern science; that if it pigeonholes ideas into "theories," that the scientific method is therefore proven.

The theory behind ideomotor movements is that the person's unconscious will always move an object according to his or her expectation.  Several controlled experiments seem to validate that it is the person's unconscious mind which directs the response to the experiment.

Yet science does not know what the unconscious "mind" really is.  It is commonly thought that the brain creates "thoughts," yet science has no reasonable explanation for how and where the simplest thought is created. 

Spiritualists see the unconscious mind as a membrane which has connections to the unseen word of spirit/mind.  While it is true that you can manipulate your own subconscious or that of others via simple methods (think hypnotists on stage), this does not invalidate the use of the subconscious as a conduit toward other experiences.

So the ouija board may move from one letter to the other by our own mind subtley influencing the subconscious.  This is obvious.  But, at the same time, if there are other minds and spirits, perhaps up to no good, then when a person uses a ouija board, that may be an invitation for the other mind/demon to enter via the same unconscious membrane.   

The subconscious mind is a very susceptible membrane which allows direct control over the physical body.  It can come from our own mind, or that of another, in certain circumstances. 


M

Focus 27 is fundamentalist in mentality and, as such, does not want to be confused with the facts.  As a result, he has read no literatures on paranormal phenomena associated with Ouija boards.  For example, Professors William James (Harvard) and James Hyslop (Columbia U) made a pledge that whoever died first would try to contact the other from the other side.  WJ died first, but nothing happened for a year.  Then JH was contacted by a couple from Ireland.  The couple had been regularly ing with a Ouija board, when someone named William James repeatedly broke through, urging them to bring a message to James Hyslop.  The couple did nothing because they know nothing of either man and becasue the message seemed silly: "Remember the red pyjamas."  Finally, William James provided information through the Ouija board about how to contact Hyslop.  They tracked him down and conveyed the message. When WJ and JH had gone to Paris for an academic conference, their luggage was delayed.  Since it was winter, they needed pyjamas for the cold, but Hyslop had bought gawdy red pyjamas  and William had teased him mercilessly for his lapse in taste!  WJ had dramatically kept his promise to demonstrate his postmortem survival to his friend.

The James-Hyslop case in discussed in detail in John J. Heaney, "The Sacred and the Psychic: Parapsychology and Christian Theology."  David Fontana's similar book, "Is There an Afterlife?  A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence," is more thorough than Heaney's research, but not as intelligently reasoned.  Together with Wilson Van Dusen's book on Swedenborg, "The Presence of Other Words,"  these books make the best evidential case for an afterlife IMHO.

The Ideomotor effect does not even remotely begin to explain the Irish couple's awesome paranormal message from William James to James Hyslop.  The Irish couple lived a contnent apart, knew nothing about their pact, and had not heard of either man.

I don't think the effect can even explain this incident.  When I was a college professor at St. Bonaventure, I was approached by a couple of Education professors and asked what I thought of Ouija boards.  I warned them that it was a bad idea.  True, the unconscious can often guide the hands over the planchette independently of conscious intention.  But in my experience, even those who don't beleive in Hell and demons can attract dark energies whose messages will terrify them.  The jaws of these two professors dropped and they looked terrified.  What they had not told me was this: at a departmental party the previous night they and their colleagues had played with a Ouija board.  In  a short time, their messages all seemed to come from Hell and various demons.  These messages were terrifying, especially since many of them did not believe in Hell or demons!

Berserk2 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 1:20pm:



PERFECT! If I can scientifically replicate this with ONE person, MYSELF, and no other person holding the Planchette, I might be able to trust the results......

HOWEVER....

I HAVE TRIED THIS!!! The PLANCHETTE does not MOVE WHATSOEVER during a scientific test of JUST myself.

BOTTOM LINE? A second person added to my scientific test = a wild card. UNACCEPTABLE for scientific evidence.

A perfect example of a test that is highly questionable. Add the fact that the PLANCHETTE does not move whatsoever with a single person and you have more ideomotor evidence!

Focus27 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2012 at 2:28pm:


Surely if the planchette moved when you were on your own you would attribute this to the ideomotor effect?

I'd love to hear why you think otherwise.

Andy

It's simple, combine Ideomotor with two conscious people looking at a board = RESULTS.


In addition.... BLINDFOLD the two people using the board.

This has been tested time and time again..... With the most interesting results.... GIBBERISH!

(You can easily google search blindfold ouija board)


Also, in response, if the planchette moved with me by myself I would be able to ask the spirit questions I do not know the answers to and later could verify them.....

DUH...... I have an answer for every question... just perhaps not the answer you are looking for, yet, it is scientifically sound.

Andy and I disagree on several points.  But Focus 27, Andy has you nailed on this issue.