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Exorcisms (Read 19701 times)
Berserk2
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #30 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 11:18pm
 
[quote author=1E373B2D2B6A6F580 link=1330898993/25#25 date=1331552688]Sure did! Does anyone have any advice for how I can get these non-existing entities to show themselves by taking over my body?

I mean, seriously? Anyone? I mean, no matter how hard I try, nothing happens.
_________________________

You have done the important thing--issuing the invitation.  But demons respond according to their agenda, not yours.  The goal is terror; so the possession occurs gradually and eventually feels like an ambush.  In the real case that inspired the movie "The Exorcist," possession was delayed for quite some time after the boy tried to contact his dead aunt through a Ouija board. 

Look for a sense of menacing shadowy presences shortly after going to bed.  Then look for negative synchornities.  If you survive those, play with a Ouija board for a while and you will begin to receive messages from dark forces.
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jdee190
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #31 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 7:37pm
 
Berserk, I seen recoverer said you are a fan of  Emanuel Swedenborg, so after death we go to what we love?
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recoverer
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #32 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 8:28pm
 
Focus27:

Regarding the below, don't make the mistake of determining that unfriendly entities can't mess with people simply because you believe there is no conclusive evidence. Maybe Moen hasn't said much about them, but Robert Monroe wrote in Ultimate Journey that unfriendly entities both human and nonhuman have been messing with people in this World for years.


Berserk2 wrote on Mar 15th, 2012 at 11:18pm:
[quote author=1E373B2D2B6A6F580 link=1330898993/25#25 date=1331552688]Sure did! Does anyone have any advice for how I can get these non-existing entities to show themselves by taking over my body?

I mean, seriously? Anyone? I mean, no matter how hard I try, nothing happens.
_________________________

You have done the important thing--issuing the invitation.  But demons respond according to their agenda, not yours.  The goal is terror; so the possession occurs gradually and eventually feels like an ambush.  In the real case that inspired the movie "The Exorcist," possession was delayed for quite some time after the boy tried to contact his dead aunt through a Ouija board. 

Look for a sense of menacing shadowy presences shortly after going to bed.  Then look for negative synchornities.  If you survive those, play with a Ouija board for a while and you will begin to receive messages from dark forces. 

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Focus27
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #33 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 4:30pm
 
Ouija board is completely explained through ideomotor movements. It also is impossible for a person that compensates for they're natural ideomotor functions to use an Ouija board alone.

Robert Monroe was creating an interesting fantasy book in which he entered Mr. Rogers land of make believe. The entire book was completely ludicrous. (Yes, I read it.)

Any sense of being watched or of a presence exists in your own mind. You are just jumping at shadows.

Spirits and demons do not exist.

Science wins again.
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #34 - Mar 17th, 2012 at 11:01pm
 
Focus27:

Do you actually believe you can accurately judge what others have experienced better than they have? If so, well I guess your way of thinking is or isn't scientific depending upon what one considers scientific. If one means uninformed narrowmindness it does imply. Many scientists have a difficult time seeing beyond their very limited parameters. They remind me of Sheldon of the Big Bang Theory. He's not as near as smart, or shall I say wise, as he thinks. His limited way of thinking can be quite hokum. Smiley

I've had numerous experiences with spirits and in ways where I know it isn't just my imagination.  If you had similar experiences you would understand why it is possible for people to be certain about the existence of spirits.

Through experience I know that unfriendly beings exist. They will try to influence people in different ways. One way might be by trying to get skeptics to get other people to believe that spirits don't exist. If they take such an approach they aren't going to let the people they are influencing know that they are being influenced.

When it comes to free will, people get influenced to the extent they allow themselves to be influenced.

Focus27 wrote on Mar 17th, 2012 at 4:30pm:
Ouija board is completely explained through ideomotor movements. It also is impossible for a person that compensates for they're natural ideomotor functions to use an Ouija board alone.

Robert Monroe was creating an interesting fantasy book in which he entered Mr. Rogers land of make believe. The entire book was completely ludicrous. (Yes, I read it.)

Any sense of being watched or of a presence exists in your own mind. You are just jumping at shadows.

Spirits and demons do not exist.

Science wins again.

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heisenberg69
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #35 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 8:33am
 
Focus27-

'Ouija board is completely explained through ideomotor movements. It also is impossible for a person that compensates for they're natural ideomotor functions to use an Ouija board alone.'

Certainly ideomotor movements are the accepted scientific explanation of how ouija boards work but that would'nt account for any examples of verified information produced unknown to the sitters previously ...
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DocM
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #36 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 10:01am
 
This is one of the fallacies of modern science; that if it pigeonholes ideas into "theories," that the scientific method is therefore proven.

The theory behind ideomotor movements is that the person's unconscious will always move an object according to his or her expectation.  Several controlled experiments seem to validate that it is the person's unconscious mind which directs the response to the experiment.

Yet science does not know what the unconscious "mind" really is.  It is commonly thought that the brain creates "thoughts," yet science has no reasonable explanation for how and where the simplest thought is created. 

Spiritualists see the unconscious mind as a membrane which has connections to the unseen word of spirit/mind.  While it is true that you can manipulate your own subconscious or that of others via simple methods (think hypnotists on stage), this does not invalidate the use of the subconscious as a conduit toward other experiences.

So the ouija board may move from one letter to the other by our own mind subtley influencing the subconscious.  This is obvious.  But, at the same time, if there are other minds and spirits, perhaps up to no good, then when a person uses a ouija board, that may be an invitation for the other mind/demon to enter via the same unconscious membrane.   

The subconscious mind is a very susceptible membrane which allows direct control over the physical body.  It can come from our own mind, or that of another, in certain circumstances. 


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Andy B
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #37 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 1:03pm
 
"Any sense of being watched or of a presence exists in your own mind. You are just jumping at shadows."

So how do you explain 2 people seeing the exact same thing in the same place on different occasions without any prior knowledge of what the other person saw?

If it's all in the mind then surely only one person would have seen it  Roll Eyes.

Also worth noting is that both of the said people did not want to see this thing, far from it infact.

What this thing is is up for debate but it definitely exists.

Having said that, everything is only as real as your brain tells you it is so technically everything is in your mind  Grin.

Andy



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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #38 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 4:14pm
 
Focus 27 is fundamentalist in mentality and, as such, does not want to be confused with the facts.  As a result, he has read no literatures on paranormal phenomena associated with Ouija boards.  For example, Professors William James (Harvard) and James Hyslop (Columbia U) made a pledge that whoever died first would try to contact the other from the other side.  WJ died first, but nothing happened for a year.  Then JH was contacted by a couple from Ireland.  The couple had been regularly ing with a Ouija board, when someone named William James repeatedly broke through, urging them to bring a message to James Hyslop.  The couple did nothing because they know nothing of either man and becasue the message seemed silly: "Remember the red pyjamas."  Finally, William James provided information through the Ouija board about how to contact Hyslop.  They tracked him down and conveyed the message. When WJ and JH had gone to Paris for an academic conference, their luggage was delayed.  Since it was winter, they needed pyjamas for the cold, but Hyslop had bought gawdy red pyjamas  and William had teased him mercilessly for his lapse in taste!  WJ had dramatically kept his promise to demonstrate his postmortem survival to his friend.
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #39 - Mar 19th, 2012 at 12:48am
 
Berserk2 wrote on Mar 18th, 2012 at 4:14pm:
Focus 27 is fundamentalist in mentality and, as such, does not want to be confused with the facts.  As a result, he has read no literatures on paranormal phenomena associated with Ouija boards.  For example, Professors William James (Harvard) and James Hyslop (Columbia U) made a pledge that whoever died first would try to contact the other from the other side.  WJ died first, but nothing happened for a year.  Then JH was contacted by a couple from Ireland.  The couple had been regularly ing with a Ouija board, when someone named William James repeatedly broke through, urging them to bring a message to James Hyslop.  The couple did nothing because they know nothing of either man and becasue the message seemed silly: "Remember the red pyjamas."  Finally, William James provided information through the Ouija board about how to contact Hyslop.  They tracked him down and conveyed the message. When WJ and JH had gone to Paris for an academic conference, their luggage was delayed.  Since it was winter, they needed pyjamas for the cold, but Hyslop had bought gawdy red pyjamas  and William had teased him mercilessly for his lapse in taste!  WJ had dramatically kept his promise to demonstrate his postmortem survival to his friend.



I can find no reference to the 'Houdini' like 'Afterlife Message' confirmation message of Jame's past physical life to his friend, Hyslop. How about some links, Don? Jame's parents were Swedenborgians, and he, James, was educated(medicine) and also taught at Harvard(other subjects).

James dabbled in mind and mood changing chemicals like Chloral Hydrate, Amyl Nitrate, Nitrous Oxide, Peyote. James suffered extreme depression and it was most likely caused by his consumption of mind and mood altering substances, undeniably confirmed by modern research today, and by those who consume and are addicted to these chemicals:

"The James children traveled to Europe frequently, attended the best possible schools, and were immersed in culture and art, which apparently paid off - William James went on to become one of the most important figures in psychology, while brother Henry James became one of the most acclaimed American novelists.

Early in school, James expressed an interest in becoming a painter. While Henry James Sr. was known as an unusually permissive and liberal father, he wanted William to study science or philosophy. Only after William persisted in his interest did Henry permit his son to formally study painting.

After studying painting with the artist William Morris Hunt for more than a year, James abandoned his dream of being a painter and enrolled at Harvard to study chemistry. While two of James' brothers enlisted to serve in the American Civil War, William and Henry did not due to health problems.

Career:

As the family money began to dwindle, William realized he would need to support himself and switched to Harvard Medical School. Unhappy with medicine as well, he left on an expedition with naturalist Louis Agassiz, although the experience was not a happy one. "I was, body and soul, in a more indescribably hopeless, homeless and friendless state than I ever want to be in again," he later wrote.

Suffering from health problems and severe depression, James spent the next two years in France and Germany. It was during this time that he studied with Hermann von Helmholtz and became increasingly interested in psychology.

After graduating from Harvard Medical School in 1869, James continued to sink into depression. After a period of inactivity, the president of Harvard offered James a position as an instructor. While he famously commented that "the first lecture on psychology I ever heard being the first I ever gave," James accepted the job and went on to teach at Harvard for the next 35 years. James also founded one of the first experimental psychology laboratories in the United States.

His classic textbook The Principles of Psychology (1890) was widely acclaimed, but some were critical of James' personal, literary tone. "It is literature," psychologist Wilhelm Wundt famously commented, "it is beautiful, but it is not psychology." Two years later, James published a condensed version of the work titled Psychology: The Briefer Course. The two books were widely used by students of psychology and were known to most as "the James" and "the Jimmy" respectively.    

      
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #40 - Mar 19th, 2012 at 7:13pm
 
The James-Hyslop case in discussed in detail in John J. Heaney, "The Sacred and the Psychic: Parapsychology and Christian Theology."  David Fontana's similar book, "Is There an Afterlife?  A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence," is more thorough than Heaney's research, but not as intelligently reasoned.  Together with Wilson Van Dusen's book on Swedenborg, "The Presence of Other Words,"  these books make the best evidential case for an afterlife IMHO.
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #41 - Mar 21st, 2012 at 9:40am
 
Here is a link with details on the ideomotor effect which explains the ouiji board issues scientifically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #42 - Mar 21st, 2012 at 1:20pm
 
The Ideomotor effect does not even remotely begin to explain the Irish couple's awesome paranormal message from William James to James Hyslop.  The Irish couple lived a contnent apart, knew nothing about their pact, and had not heard of either man.

I don't think the effect can even explain this incident.  When I was a college professor at St. Bonaventure, I was approached by a couple of Education professors and asked what I thought of Ouija boards.  I warned them that it was a bad idea.  True, the unconscious can often guide the hands over the planchette independently of conscious intention.  But in my experience, even those who don't beleive in Hell and demons can attract dark energies whose messages will terrify them.  The jaws of these two professors dropped and they looked terrified.  What they had not told me was this: at a departmental party the previous night they and their colleagues had played with a Ouija board.  In  a short time, their messages all seemed to come from Hell and various demons.  These messages were terrifying, especially since many of them did not believe in Hell or demons!
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Focus27
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #43 - Mar 21st, 2012 at 2:23pm
 
I could easily create these messages using a board with these guys.... All the while saying... "It's not me!!!!"
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Focus27
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #44 - Mar 21st, 2012 at 2:28pm
 
Berserk2 wrote on Mar 21st, 2012 at 1:20pm:
But in my experience, even those who don't beleive in Hell and demons can attract dark energies whose messages will terrify them. 



PERFECT! If I can scientifically replicate this with ONE person, MYSELF, and no other person holding the Planchette, I might be able to trust the results......

HOWEVER....

I HAVE TRIED THIS!!! The PLANCHETTE does not MOVE WHATSOEVER during a scientific test of JUST myself.

BOTTOM LINE? A second person added to my scientific test = a wild card. UNACCEPTABLE for scientific evidence.

A perfect example of a test that is highly questionable. Add the fact that the PLANCHETTE does not move whatsoever with a single person and you have more ideomotor evidence!
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