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jdee190 Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 131	Re: Exorcisms Reply #15 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 8:45am Hello berserk, that is very scary especially for someone like me with a great fear of hell
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recoverer

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #16 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 2:12pm

jdee:

There is no reason to draw such a conclusion. People getting possessed doesn't mean that hell exists in the way you are speaking of it. Berserk is a fan of Emanuel Swedenborg. Swedenborg basically stated that after death we experience according to what we love. If we love negative things we'll go to a realm where negative things exist. If we love positive things such as love and respect for others we'll go to a realm where such things exist.

Once a soul finds itself in a realm it isn't stuck in that realm for all of eternity. As soon as it wants to ascend to a higher level of being it will get the assistance it needs in order to do so. This isn't an automatic thing. It might have to work on itself some. The more it does the more it will be able to ascend.

I've read some near-death experiences (and also watched some youtube videos) where people had hell like experiences. Each of them experienced hell in a different way. The manner in which they experienced was partly based on what they expected to experience. In each case such a person asked for help, received it, and moved on to a positive realm.

I believe Berserk would tell you that Jesus will help souls who want to be helped. Doing so wouldn't be a matter of submitting to Jesus as if he is some power hungry dictator. It would be a matter of being interested in the same beautiful, wonderful and perfected way of existence that he is a part of.

jdee190 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2012 at 8:45am:

Hello berserk, that is very scary especially for someone like me with a great fear of hell Sad

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jdee190 Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 131	Re: Exorcisms Reply #17 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 2:31pm Thank You very much recoverer, that is exactly the type of answer I was looking for! I also like Swedenborg's work. We have a family friend who is a protestant minister and he is a huge fan of Swedenborg. I just wish I could move past this fear rubbish
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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: Exorcisms Reply #18 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 2:38pm jdee: You're welcome. The fact of how you are seeking to overcome your fear will enable you to do so. I've found that overcoming a fear can sometimes take time. The more we do the more our experience of life improves. So keep trying and you'll obtain your goal.
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #19 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 4:27pm

jdee:

I once watched a show where this lady was afraid of people who dress up in cartoon-based animal costumes. Why? Because when she was a little girl a man broke into her house when she was home alone. At the time she was watching a TV show where people dressed up in cartoon-based animal costumes. As a result her mind created a fear-based thought pattern that associated the traumatic event she experienced with people dressed in cartoon-based animal costumes.

I've found that our thought patterns can operate according to their own little world of reasoning. Such thought patterns can be really irrational and could care less about what's true and the bigger picture. They only care about their own programming, just as a computer only cares about its programming.

Fortunately, I've also found that we are much more than any particular thought pattern. Therefore, we have a way to see beyond the thought patterns that trouble us. One thing I've found to be very helpful is to see how my experience feels when I'm listening to an undesirable thought pattern as compared to when I don't. I've found that after such a comparison is made it is very clear that the undesirable thought pattern doesn't represent the truth.

Another thing I've found to be helpful is to make a list of the reasons an undesirable thought pattern isn't worth holding onto. First I'll go over the list intellectually in order to make certain that I'm considering each listed item accurately and thoroughly. This helps appease my rational mind. Then I'll feel how each item on the list is correct. Then I'll let go of the undesirable thought pattern as much as I can. There are times when such a process might have to be gone through more than once.

There have been political leaders who have tried to keep their citizens uneducated because it is easier to control people when they don't have the information they need in order to make a wise decision. A religious leader does something similar when he tries to limit his followers to the doctrine he advocates.

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jdee190

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #20 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 10:03pm

I just heard a story from my uncle about a house in the village he lives in.

They took down a wall in the house when the people moved in and it disturbed a 'demon' . They called in the Church of Scotland minister to perform an exorcism. He did it. However for weeks there was screaming and doors slamming at night so again they rushed to the minister, he said nothing to do with me ask the Catholic priest.

So they did, he performed a Catholic exorcism and it worked. The house was at peace and the demon was defeated using Catholicism.

What is that all about?

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jdee190 Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 131	Re: Exorcisms Reply #21 - Mar 9^th, 2012 at 10:46pm I was also on John Edwards facebook page and someone mentioned the books 'Hostage by the Devil' and '23 minutes in hell'. Anyone read these?
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recoverer

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #22 - Mar 10^th, 2012 at 1:51pm

Perhaps it has to do with the spiritual depth and faith of the priest. Not all priests are the same. Some men become priests because they have a sincere desire to serve God and others.

jdee190 wrote on Mar 9^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

I just heard a story from my uncle about a house in the village he lives in.

They took down a wall in the house when the people moved in and it disturbed a 'demon' . They called in the Church of Scotland minister to perform an exorcism. He did it. However for weeks there was screaming and doors slamming at night so again they rushed to the minister, he said nothing to do with me ask the Catholic priest.

So they did, he performed a Catholic exorcism and it worked. The house was at peace and the demon was defeated using Catholicism.

What is that all about?

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Focus27

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #23 - Mar 11^th, 2012 at 6:31am

I keep asking spirits to come into my body, take complete control and give me super powers.

"Spirits of the dead, hear my message board typing! I welcome your evil dark spiritual energy! Come and use my body to prove that you exist! I ask... no... I BEG on my knees! Come Spirits! COME!!!!"

Oh SNAP.... Nothing happened.

Well, due to the simple fact that spirits inhabiting the body has failed to be proven, exorcisms of said spirits is equally non-legitimate!

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #24 - Mar 11^th, 2012 at 1:44pm

Focus27:

If you actually asked for the first thing you said to take place, then I'd say that your discernment on the second matter can't be trusted.

Focus27 wrote on Mar 11^th, 2012 at 6:31am:

I keep asking spirits to come into my body, take complete control and give me super powers.

"Spirits of the dead, hear my message board typing! I welcome your evil dark spiritual energy! Come and use my body to prove that you exist! I ask... no... I BEG on my knees! Come Spirits! COME!!!!"

Oh SNAP.... Nothing happened.

Well, due to the simple fact that spirits inhabiting the body has failed to be proven, exorcisms of said spirits is equally non-legitimate!

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Focus27

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #25 - Mar 12^th, 2012 at 7:44am

Sure did! Does anyone have any advice for how I can get these non-existing entities to show themselves by taking over my body?

I mean, seriously? Anyone? I mean, no matter how hard I try, nothing happens.......

The bottom line?

People use evil spirits as an excuse for things they do wrong.

I can chant and ritual and beg and say whatever to these pretend spirits, and I am not going to change one iota. You won't catch me suddenly craving uncooked meat or killing small animals.

Claims of being possessed fall... quite simply into 2 categories.

1. People with mental or psychical conditions that appear to be possession.
2. People that have committed crimes/sins and want to blame the evil spirits.

The best part is that it is impossible for anyone to refute my sensible, scientific outlook. You cannot prove a person is possessed by a spirit. The only thing that comes close is perhaps the messages spiritual mediums can supposedly produce.... of which all of the mediums I have tested have failed.

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Andy B

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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #26 - Mar 13^th, 2012 at 4:29pm

Focus27 wrote on Mar 12^th, 2012 at 7:44am:

The best part is that it is impossible for anyone to refute my sensible, scientific outlook.

Focus,

1. As our knowledge of mental illness is pretty much nothing then it can't be said that someone has one with absolute certainty.

The standard diagnosis for depression here in the U.K is to answer a few questions about how you feel on a 1-10 scale and depending on the score you get you are diagnosed with it and prescribed some happy pills.

I would laugh as it could be very funny but as people are dropping like flies due to depression it's not funny at all!

2.Some criminals blame evil spirits, some blame other people, others blame their upbringing, child abuse, poor, blah, blah, blah. Who gives a f what they blame anyway?

Besides most if not all get put into a nuthouses anyway so it's just an excuse to not go into a proper prison.

My straight to the point reply proves that your 2 points neither prove nor disprove spirit possession so we're still getting nowhere Wink

.

Just for the record, I don't believe that spirits can possess us either, that's not to say it's impossible as nothings impossible.

Andy

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heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: Exorcisms Reply #27 - Mar 14^th, 2012 at 6:18am Of greater concern to me are the actons of some people towards those believed to be possessed (especially children). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17255470
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jdee190 Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 131	Re: Exorcisms Reply #28 - Mar 15^th, 2012 at 9:02am What about all these films based on true stories? Such as The Devil Inside. Does that not show there is a devil?
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Re: Exorcisms
Reply #29 - Mar 15^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

Even if there is "a devil," this doesn't mean that we can be forced to go to hell.

It is odd that some people believe in "a devil" because when it comes to the Bible "devil" is used in various ways. One would think that if "devil" actually applies to one specific being it wouldn't be used in different ways.

jdee190 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012 at 9:02am:

What about all these films based on true stories? Such as The Devil Inside. Does that not show there is a devil?

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