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Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance (Read 14371 times)
J.K.Chris
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #30 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 10:53am
 
You can talk with your thoughts or think your thoughts. The same difference between personified guidance and intuitive acting "as if guided". Both can be described with the same neuroscience of what is going in the brain in relation to the "self".

It does not means, that there is no guidance; it only means, that you are something greater and wider than you define. If you simplify too much your definition of "what I am", then you land in a model, that asks the questions like "so, who are the others?" or "what is the difference between?".

What should be right question then? Maybe - "which model of 'I am' is more effective at this point of my self expression and self reception?"

None of such models must be better than others, but some of such models are better in some situations, and the fact that you can switch your perspective - answers more questions, than the models you switch between. This is the process of "becoming more aware".
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Lights of Love
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #31 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:19am
 
Don, I think according to John's description he received two bits of information: the vision and a name.  The interpretation seems to be John's own belief since someone else receiving the same information could have simply thought, Oh that guy's cheating on his wife and feels guilty and then went on to discuss the situation in terms other than Christian.

The information itself could have been gleaned from John's inner guidance, the man's thoughts, another entity, memory held within the larger consciousness "database", etc. I'm not so sure a distinction can really be made as to where the information was gleaned from in this case. 

What's most important is this man's behavior apparently was not helping his spiritual growth and intervention/guidance/help came from the consciousness system itself in one of the above ways.  I think the whole of consciousness can and does provide whatever is needed to help someone evolve in beneficial ways.
 
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Lights of Love
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #32 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 11:25am
 
Matthew, I don't think we truly are independent at our innermost being.  We only believe we are separate and independent because of the rules/laws/physics that govern the various realities we experience. The divine "plan" is for the evolution of Consciousness to expand and grow in the way that proves to be the most profitable.  And clearly Consciousness evolved towards love as that was/is the most beneficial.  Perhaps the intelligence lies within the process of evolution as "it" explores all possibilities. In other words perhaps this "intelligence" is learned as evolution takes place.
 
That would explain why there is such a thing as good/evil (most profitable/not so much) where the system itself decides.  God as the ground of all being, (including the Consciousness system) seems to have put forth the potential to become "something" by giving that "something" certain attributes such as freewill and everything else, including intelligence/rules/laws/realities/souls/us etc. evolved out of that initial potential where the evolving system itself bubbles up whatever is needed for the continuing of its existence, its expansion and growth in ways that are the most profitable and thereby derived its own intelligence from experience. 
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recoverer
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #33 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 4:09pm
 
Vicky:

I agree.

Vicky wrote on Mar 8th, 2012 at 1:10am:
recoverer wrote on Mar 7th, 2012 at 9:24pm:
This sort of relates to what Don (Berserk) just wrote. I've shared this before. One time I was walking through a hallway at work. I was suddenly shown a stop sign (I saw it front of me). I stopped, and a lady with a lower back problem came barreling around the corner. If I would not had stopped we would've crashed into each other.


Recoverer, I think this is typical, classic guidance.  I don't think it matters if we try to define where it came from, who gave it, or why.  Simply put, we have nonphysical senses of perception that we are only barely aware of most of the time.  In this example, you clearly noticed, paid attention, and listened to it without question or distrust. You simply accepted the means of communication and responded in kind...in other words, you didn't allow doubt to shut down your perception or ability, which likely would have made you bump into the woman. 




In general.....To me, learning more about this ability of our nonphysical senses of perception is no different from a baby learning that he has arms, hands, fingers, legs, feet, and toes, all of which are things the baby gradually become aware are his and are things he can consciously learn to utilize.  The more we become comfortable trusting and accepting, the more we will grow in our learning, belief, and knowledge. 

It's far more important to ask ourselves "what else can I learn that I haven't experienced yet?" than to only look back and question what our past experience was and why. 

Vicky

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Berserk2
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #34 - Mar 8th, 2012 at 6:51pm
 
Just a few observations about John Wimber's exposure of the flight traveler's adultery.
(1) It seems natural to assume that if JW's initial revelation (the adultery and the adulteress's name) proved correct, then the legitimacy of the warning has been validated since it was received as part of a continuus revelatory process.  I'd wager that if any of us were in this same situation and a total stranger exposed our adultery and our lover's name, we too would take the warning seriously.

(2) Obviously, if we have a preconception that God is never punitive, we will automatically want to dismiss that part of JW's message.  But is this intellectually honest?  Suppose for the sake of argument that the threat was legitimate.  What in principle would it take to change our minds about this possibility?

(3) I know that Wimber is extraordinarily gifted in the exercise of "the word of knowledge" and that his predictions have come true on other occasions. 

(4) I have had several death premonitions that have invariably come true.  But as I have previously posted, I have not been able to persuade the person in danger to take evasive action.  So I now take these premonitions as a signal to pray that, since the future is not fixed, the danger can be averted through protective prayer. 

(5) The validity of inner knowing (intuition) need not depend on evidence.  None of us can decisively determine the validity of JW's threat, but we should at least acknowledge the possibility that the  quality of his intuition was such that he really knew. 

(6) How can we refine the accuracy of our intuition if our preconceptions continually censor and limit what can come through?  (a) A school psychologist in my church was expanding his selfless service to our church and the poor and needy.  Yet my intuition told me that he had a dark secret that should affect my relationship with him.  I censored that intuition as judgmental paranoia, but soon discovered that he had been molesting boys.  He is now serving a 14 1/2 year sentence.  (b) A defrocked pastor sought my support to get back into the ministry.  I gave him chances to serve and he performed very well.  But I knew he had marital problems and felt a strong impulse to confront him on this and press him to humble himself and seek reconciliation.  But I resisted this impulse.  After all, he was in a small support group that included a gifted clinical psychogist and very mature men who were closer to him than I.  "Who did I think I was?"  I thought.  Well, the ex-astor shot and killed his wife and I was sorry I resisted the impulse to confront him!
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Lights of Love
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #35 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 12:39pm
 
Quote:
Just a few observations about John Wimber's exposure of the flight traveler's adultery.
(1) It seems natural to assume that if JW's initial revelation (the adultery and the adulteress's name) proved correct, then the legitimacy of the warning has been validated since it was received as part of a continuous revelatory process. I'd wager that if any of us were in this same situation and a total stranger exposed our adultery and our lover's name, we too would take the warning seriously.

(2) Obviously, if we have a preconception that God is never punitive, we will automatically want to dismiss that part of JW's message. But is this intellectually honest? Suppose for the sake of argument that the threat was legitimate. What in principle would it take to change our minds about this possibility?

(3) I know that Wimber is extraordinarily gifted in the exercise of "the word of knowledge" and that his predictions have come true on other occasions.

Here, I'm not so sure there was a warning simply because no visual image appeared to indicate that "God would take him home".  Had an image such as a coffin appeared then I likely would have interpreted that there was a probability that the man would die.  Still, I wouldn't credit God with his possible impending demise. Intuition as we've discussed can be gleaned from various sources.  The man could have held a belief that adultery was wrong and God would punish him possibly by striking him down. (A fairly common belief even when one doesn't consider themselves a Christian.) John, even if he didn't believe this himself, could have gleaned that bit of information from the man. I usually take warnings seriously if I'm reasonably sure the information is accurate. In my experience if a death was trying to be prevented, a symbol representing death would have likely appeared as the first vision followed by the others indicating a course of action to follow to change the probability.

Quote:
(4) I have had several death premonitions that have invariably come true. But as I have previously posted, I have not been able to persuade the person in danger to take evasive action. So I now take these premonitions as a signal to pray that, since the future is not fixed, the danger can be averted through protective prayer.

Sometimes the probability is so strong it is not likely to change even with prayer or other intervention. After all these years I've accepted that sometimes I know things and there's little I can do to change them no matter how much I want to.  In those cases all one can do is gracefully accept whatever is to come. Albeit not always an easy thing to do.

Quote:
(5) The validity of inner knowing (intuition) need not depend on evidence. None of us can decisively determine the validity of JW's threat, but we should at least acknowledge the possibility that the quality of his intuition was such that he really knew.

Certainly possible, however, not likely in this particular case for the reasons stated above.  If changing the probability of a death was the purpose of communication, this most likely would have been more prominent than the other two visions. Had all of the information been communicated via intuition it might be a different story.  It's possible for intuition or knowing, etc. to accompany a vision, but that usually reinforces or clarifies the vision itself.      

Quote:
(6) How can we refine the accuracy of our intuition if our preconceptions continually censor and limit what can come through? (a) A school psychologist in my church was expanding his selfless service to our church and the poor and needy. Yet my intuition told me that he had a dark secret that should affect my relationship with him. I censored that intuition as judgmental paranoia, but soon discovered that he had been molesting boys. He is now serving a 14 1/2 year sentence. (b) A defrocked pastor sought my support to get back into the ministry. I gave him chances to serve and he performed very well. But I knew he had marital problems and felt a strong impulse to confront him on this and press him to humble himself and seek reconciliation. But I resisted this impulse. After all, he was in a small support group that included a gifted clinical psychologist and very mature men who were closer to him than I. "Who did I think I was?" I thought. Well, the ex-pastor shot and killed his wife and I was sorry I resisted the impulse to confront him!

Now you've hit on the crux of the problem with the accuracy of intuition. Intuition can only be clear and accurate when we have no preconceptions or emotion for that matter.  Preconceptions and emotion follow the information, and if one allows them to arise they will likely taint the information and/or it will stop coming forth.  I suspect this is why we only get bits of information at a time. Information coming forth continues as long as it is not analyzed or interfered with in any way until after it stops on its own.

As mentioned above, sometimes we do know things about someone else, yet many times we do not receive any clear information about a course of action to take.  Most likely with the psychologist, anything you would have been able to do, if you'd known the full story would not have changed the outcome, unless of course it could have been stopped sooner.  Same with the ex-pastor.  The probability of you having changed the outcome perhaps was there, but since he was receiving help chances are you confronting him would not have changed what happened.

Still there is such a wide range of probabilities at any given moment that it is difficult to decide what to do.  It's possible that had you confronted him you may have received more information such as his wife being in imminent danger.  Still there may not have been anything you could have done differently to change the outcome.  That's part of the uncertainty of living in this world.  We can only do the best we can at any given moment and learn to live with the uncertainty that abounds.   

Kathy
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Rondele
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Re: Intuition ("knowing") vs. Guidance
Reply #36 - Mar 12th, 2012 at 8:27pm
 
I've posted this story several years ago and it may or may not relate to the thread, but here goes anyway!

At the agency I used to work in DC, my boss at one time was a hard-bitten, cynical guy who was generally either despised and/or feared by those who worked for him as well as those who had to deal with him.  He was an avowed athiest and seldom had a good word to say about anyone.

His wife had either MS or MD, can't recall, but she was bedridden and he would confide in me things that he had to do for her, which was more out of a sense of obligation to his then 13 yr old son than anything else.

In the meantime he was engaged in a long term affair with a woman who worked in the same office.  He told me that as long as his wife was alive he would never divorce her. Everyone knew it.  He also took advantage of his secretary which eventually became an open secret as well.

One day he came into my office, shut the door and proceeded to tell me a story that to this day remains vivid in my memory.

He told me that one evening, after preparing his wife for the night, he got into bed, turned off the light and was ready for sleep.

Instinctively he was drawn to look up at the corner of the room's ceiling.  There was no face or body, just a hand with a finger pointing down at him.  He said the image was the most beautiful, unearthly radiant thing he had even seen.

He said it was like alabaster, and that he knew intuitively that if the entire figure behind the hand were to appear he would not be able to view it.  It would have been too overwhelming, too incredibly awesome to look upon.  He said he would have had to look away.

Now, this was something that he felt embarrassed to tell me.  He was not comfortable sharing it, afraid that others may conclude he was losing it. 

He was clearly looking not only to share but hoping to find some kind of answer to the vision.

He said the finger pointing, to him, was clearly an admonishment about his overall conduct, especially his affair. 

Bottom line was he never changed his behavior.  The affair continued and his overall demeanor was unchanged.

Strange thing is, it shook him to his core but it didn't cause him to stop the way he was living his life.

I've often wondered.....why did this truly spectacular event happen to him?  After all, sad to say but affairs (and worse) are going on all the time.  What was different in his case?  What was the purpose?

Things that we can never know I suppose.  I've long since lost touch with him but often wonder how his life turned out.

R
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