Hi Jdee,

I went back to read some of your other posts and I think I have a better idea of what is going on. You are Catholic (or were raised in the Catholic religion), correct? If so, I may be able to help in some small way. I am a former Catholic. I attended parochial school all the way through college. I have found many people simply don't understand the level of control and fear instilled in young children within strict religions. It's not that they don't want to "get" it. It's that they can't "get" it.

Rather than write a novel now, I thought I'd reach out to you and ask if you'd like to talk about your beliefs, fears and anxieties about Catholicism and its impact on your life (and afterlife)? I don't profess to know all the answers, but I'd be happy to share in dialogue with you in the hope I can help "bridge the gap" for you. Please let me know if you are interested and I promise to try my best.  My goal is simply to help you feel better about who you are and your journey. I wish you the absolute best in your journey regardless of your decision to engage or not engage in this discussion.

Kind regards,
mj

Thanks for the help, I never ever expected a thread to start in my name!

Hello mjd, my fear and concern is hell.

Im scared things such as exorcisms and catholic miracles prove it exists

Hi Jdee,

I've been thinking about you because I recall many of the things I was taught about Catholicism and I recall being very confused and afraid most of the time. I wanted to share some of it with you just so you know I've been there.

Although I was required to learn certain Bible verses and attend services, I was never really taught what Catholicism is, what it means and how it impacts my place in the world. The basic message was/is "Do this like I say and don't ask questions."

Well, that idea annoyed me. Why couldn't I ask questions? Why couldn't I ask for clarification on things that made no sense to me? I recall asking my 2nd grade teacher how Noah lived over 900 years. She told me they didn't measure time then the way we do now. Even as a kid that made no sense to me. In third grade we had to take a test on the 10 Commandments. I studied and memorized them all. As we are writing I look up to see one of my classmates cheating. He had a pencil with the commandments written on it. So he was just copying them down right there. I was shocked! and I told. Yes, I tattled, but I knew I was right. Did it matter? Not one bit and the funniest part is the Priest (our religion teacher) told me that "he can't cheat his way through life" which I have since learned is a huge lie!

So, I felt confused and lost and annoyed at all the inconsistencies around me. Why was it okay for my teacher to leave her family for another man? Why was it okay for the kids to pick on some other kid they didn't like for whatever reason? Why did my teachers lie about things just to get me and other kids sent to the Principal's office? Surely, they can't all be masochist who love to see people paddled (maybe that's a job requirement . I never understood why if they tell us God knows us all and loves each one of us, we needed a "spokesperson" (why do we need to go confess to a Priest? And further, how can a Priest possibly help with marital and family problems when they are required to take a vow of celibacy and never marry?!?!? Even deeper, why do so many priests have secret families in the world who are usually being support through welfare programs?) I wondered why God flooded the Earth instead of just zapping Adam and Eve and starting over with another ball of human-clay. Or, why did God even allow a situation where they could be tempted and "fail"? Surely, an all-loving, all-knowing powerful God would want to see his children succeed, right?

Closer to home, why did my parents fight all the time and blame me for it? Why didn't they love me even though I obeyed them and honored them and why did they adore my siblings no matter what they did? Why did my mother act one way in public and act a different way in private? Why was it wrong of me to help other people? Why was it okay for me to be beaten and emotionally battered regularly and the "good Catholics" in our family and neighborhood turned a blind-eye?

I had a ton of questions and nobody was answering them for me. I was tired of hearing platitudes like "turn the other cheek" and "God sees all" and on and on. I wanted to know how to get through the day without getting bullied at school or beat up at home! Besides, even the punishments caused me to question my religion. When I got in trouble at school (anything could cause it and I was not a difficult student) I was punished at home, but my mother also called my grandmother and she would come over and punish me and other relatives to spank me or give me a verbal lashing, so I was being shamed into compliance while nobody was actually answering any of my questions and that was before my father came in from work to spank me for the same thing!

And, that was the biggest question of them all? Why won't any of these people answer my questions? It would take many years of independent research for me to find the answer to that one, but oh what a day it was! I learned something I never understood before then. I learned something that turned it all upside down on its head. I learned the simple truth - they didn't answer because they didn't know the answers. Our family is generations deep Catholic and everyone I knew accepted what they were told and did what they were told and never asked any questions. It's called "keeping your nose to the grindstone." So, here I come, this "trouble maker" because telling me is not enough. I want to understand the how and why and how do we make it better and how do we use the bad stuff to make the world a better place. I probably drove my teachers insane! ;-0

Seriously, though, ask yourself. What do you believe and, more importantly, WHY do you believe it? I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong. I'm asking you to examine if you've ever really DECIDED to believe those things or if they are just what you were taught and expected to believe. Surprisingly, to me at least, many people never move far away from where they were born and many never question what they were taught. Not all, but many people are willing to sacrifice their personal happiness and journey to "fit in" to whatever hierarchical structure was designed for them from the moment of their birth. And, guess what? We don't have to and it's okay. Yes, it might ruffle some feathers for those who want and need us to be the way they want us to need and be, but isn't true love - the very essence of pure, unconditional love - the most freeing thing ever? Doesn't it mean that we want others to be as wonderful and beautiful and happy all the way to infinity and beyond!?

Kind regards,
mj

Hi Recoverer,

Absolutely!

I was thinking about a cousin who is gay. I knew he was gay back when we were growing up, but he always denied it. I didn't care then and I don't care now. His love life doesn't impact my world in any way. I have always loved him and think he's quite funny. His mother goes to the local Catholic church a few times a week, gives them money and supports her parish WHILE they are teaching and telling her and others to hate her own son. He is welcome in her home, but he is not welcome to bring any friends (even non-romantic ones) and he is not to discuss his "lifestyle." She regularly gossips with others in the family and they make disparaging jokes about gay people. Yet, my cousin is their flesh and blood. He graduated from college, works everyday, doesn't harm anyone and doesn't force his beliefs on other people. Why is that not a huge wake-up call to question one's religion?

It's not just about that issue. I've seen it with interracial marriages and churches teaching members to disown relatives who intermarry others from another religion or race or culture. I've seen it with children with handicaps and on and on. When we stop and forget everything we were taught, by our parents, our schools, our society, our leaders, all of it. When all of that is gone...the only thing left is man's humanity - how we treat each other just because we are all human beings. Nothing else matters.

Thanks for sharing. I'm hoping other people feel free to join in this discussion as well. Jdee has got me thinking over here.

Kind regards,
mj

eric wrote on Feb 11^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:


  As regards the O.T., my current understanding is that not everything in the O.T. is literal, historical accounts.  (But, by no means am i a fan of the O.T. btw)

  Quite a bit is suppose to be taken in a more symbolic-esoteric way.  The story of Job is one such example, much of Genesis as well, etc.  Often "stories" in the OT that involve very specific numbers, like 42 are deep esoteric-symbolic, they address numerological concepts, etc.   The Hebrews were influenced quite a bit by the Egyptian and Sumerian cultures which were quite esoteric-metaphysical oriented.

  But then again, i was raised in a non religious and non belief system oriented environment (lack of science dogma, lack of both Western and Eastern religious dogma, lack of New age for the most part, etc also), and so maybe my understanding of the Bible lacks.  In any case, i've had a lot of nonphysical oriented experiences and messages involving Yeshua, which is why i "believe" in and respect him so much.

  I've intuitively figured out he and/or his Disk is referenced in various non religious works, often in "veiled" ways, like Monroe's "He/She", Bruce's "Planning Intelligence", etc., etc.   Both Cayce's and Rosiland McKnight's guidance however, was pretty blatant with talking about him and his very important roles in the Earth and in creation.

  Bob Monroe was sufficiently interested in this "Jesus" dude, to have his friend at the time, remote viewer Joe McMoneagle do a Remote Viewing on a blind target for Joe.  Joe didn't know the target, but Bob did. 

The Remote Viewing of Jesus (which Joe picked up on during the R.V. a bit into it) was quite interesting in many respects.  It actually confirmed some of Cayce's guidance about this character. 

  One such thing was describing this Being as sort of an Archetypal Being of Light who incarnated every once in awhile to reorient humanity back to a certain ideal, and even described him as having reddish hair. 

    Cayce, in describing Yeshua's looks, also mentioned that he had noticeable red in his hair, and also mentioned that his Disk would periodically project a lifetime/personality as a spiritual teacher and exemplar type who helped "retrieve" people 'stuck' in this dimension.

  In other words, it doesn't seem that many people truly and more fully understand what this Jesus character is all about.  This is both religious types and non religious, more exploratory nonphysical types. 

It certainly isn't about "religion" at all.  Too bad fundamentalist Christianity and Christians tend to so turn so many away from a more clear and holistic perception of him and what he means.

[quote author=6C74686C7F656C7E6A6263680D0 link=1328758141/9#9 date=1328992503]I never could make peace with the concept of a loving God that sent people to hell, even when I was a hardcore Christian.  What about the people have never heard about Jesus...?quote]

Hi Eric,

I was involved in a discussion group of volunteers interested in church planting (at the time I signed up I was not aware this was their goal). I set up a private Yahoo group for all the volunteers to brainstorm ideas for the organization and talk about positive things.

One of the participants posed the question about those who have never heard of Jesus and His teachings, to which the Founder of the organization replied something to the effect of "those who do not know about Jesus and his "sacrifice" for mankind will not go to Heaven or Hell." Someone countered with "So, we are basically condemning people to a potential life of Hell by bringing the word of God to them?" I thought it was an excellent question and one that was never answered satisfactorily for many of us there.

I think this gets to the crux of the issue with religions - they are simply man's interpretation of what s/he think is the "right path" and anything that doesn't fit neatly into that box is just ignored. If the ONLY reason I believe a certain thing is because of where I born on the planet, then doesn't it follow that my belief system isn't any more *right* or *correct* than that of someone born on the other side of the planet into a different religious system? If my beliefs, ideas and convictions are solely based on the validation I received from those in my immediate environment, are they *better* or *less false* than someone else's beliefs, ideas and convictions which are based on the validity they received in their environment? If not, then it has to logically follow there is some truth and some falsehood in ALL religious teachings. I strongly believe the lesson is not in the teachings, but in the journey we take to get there. And, I think this is where people get trapped.

Or, maybe, I'm just throwing up my hands and screaming "uncle" because I realized very early that I simply would not ever be "good enough" to be loved by my family, and, by extension, my church. And, although the idea of floundering in the world without a church home scared me, it is probably one of the best and most enlightening experiences of my life because it forced me to seek answers outside the only information I had ever known.

Thanks for sharing in this discussion!

Kind regards,
mj

I mentioned some folks in another thread, that have made the conceptual leap beyond religion: Thomas Merton, a catholic monk, and Thich Nach Nhan, a Buddhist, and even Karen Armstrong, a "secular" religious scholar of current note, are writing brilliantly about the overarching spirituality, while still living within their religious traditions. Worth a look if you are interested.