Hello,

My name is MJ and I have been reading this forum for many years. I have been thinking about many things in my life and have some questions that I hope you may be able to help me understand things better.

It's my understanding that we are only limited by our own belief systems about how things are or should be and we become "free" when we allow ourselves to move beyond these beliefs. I recall the discussions about some people becoming "stuck" in a particular place or pattern because they simply aren't aware they can change their beliefs to move on. I think I understand that idea clearly.

I would prefer to use an example of someone famous versus my own personal experiences (simply because I'm not quite ready to delve into all that). For this purpose, I will use Hitler. Let's say Hilter truly believes that he is *right* in his thinking and that he deserved to earn his place of leadership and possibly world domination. Let's argue that he truly, sincerely and honestly believed this to his core and was simply following through on what he believed to be the right course of action for the "good of society." I am in no way suggesting he was right in his thinking or actions, but just assuming that he THOUGHT he was since the premise of life agreements is based on our belief systems.

Now, imagine that Hilter's body has died and he is facing life review whereby he gets to see a moving picture of all his choices and their impact on everyone. Let's say, throughout his life review, he absolutely does not falter in his belief that his actions are anything but good, right and correct. He sees and acknowledged the pain and destruction he's caused to countless people, but only sees that as a "necessary consequence" for the right and correct choice.

In the above situation, isn't it not only probable, but likely that he would transition to the next phase of existence without any sort of judgment (since he is only judging his own actions) or punishment (since he is the judge, jury and executioner)? I'm not keen on believing in organized religion so I'm not suggesting all hell and damnation. I'm just trying to understand this concept within the context of someone who steadfastly believes they are ABSOLUTELY right in their actions and behaviors.

I will end there and hope we can discuss this matter further. I'm really confused about how to heal certain aspects of my own life and toxic relationships for which I have no control. And, it seems like I will have no choice but to "repeat" this pattern with the same hate-filled, abusive and destructive being in future lifetimes with this person. I don't see the point in trying to go on if I am completely helpless to heal the relationship now or in the future because this person's belief system will rationalize and justify their behavior toward me and others.

Any comments and insight are greatly appreciated. I have been waiting years to try to formulate this question in my mind and reach out for open discussion on it.

Thanks for your time,
mj

I guess that is where I'm confused about all this. My understanding (albeit, very little at this point) is that it doesn't really matter what anyone besides Hitler thinks of his actions. It only matters what he thinks of his actions and how he judges himself.

In much the same way, I've met people who believed in particular religions and who were downright distraught to learn they have a family member or closer friend who is an atheist. The person has expended time and energy to pray for their loved ones soul to "get to Heaven" (or wherever they believe they *should* go in the afterlife) without any regard for what that person believes or accepts as their personal truth. Again, my interpretation leans toward it not being of any consequence except to the person within their own belief system. Therefore, an atheist will be wherever s/he believes they will be upon physical death and a theist will be wherever s/he believes they will be upon physical death with no input from anyone else.

Beyond that, I can assure you that I never intended to imply and I am certainly NOT in an abusive situation. My question moreso pertains to an abusive person in my family who harbors constant ill will and hatred toward me. All efforts on my part to extend an olive branch and open the lines of communication (with the goal toward healing) have been wrought with more destructive behavior toward me and general chaos. I have since given up exposing myself to this person's toxicity. The person continues to try to hurt me by influencing people around me, but I've learned to insulate myself from that secondary harm after all these years of putting up with it. My main concern, at this point, is not further physical or emotional harm in this lifetime, but repeated lifetimes with this person since we couldn't figure out our life lessons together this go 'round. I can't fathom the thought of living even another nanosecond with such a mean, hate-filled and selfish person/entity. I just don't see any way of avoiding it since we clearly aren't "breaking bread" in this lifetime.

Thanks for the warning, though. I do appreciate that you were kind enough to comment. I have never been willing to tolerate any type of abuse because of my early experiences with the above referenced family member. I would not and will not ever accept that kind of toxicity as something to be justified, regardless if it's directed toward me or within my presence.

Thanks for your response.

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular nor is it a particular response to the above posts. Having said that...

We don't know the full story on Hitler. We don't know how much his judgement and actions were influenced by mental illness, genetics, upbringing, socialization, ect.

The consciousness that incarnated as Adolf Hitler is made of the same stuff as you and I.

If, as one Harvard psychologist* insists, 3 - 4% of us are sociopaths then we all have previous incarnations as such and have these among our higher selves. In other words: we are him and he is us.

His higher self may very well include those we would consider saints or holy people. So whom are we judging, really?

No one, and I mean NO ONE, is completely good or evil.

Nothing is ever as simple as black and white.


*Stout, M. Ph.D., The Sociopath Next Door. 2005.

Greetings mjd,

Regarding the relative who won't back off, perhaps you've already learned your intended lesson, since you've found some peace in buffering yourself rather than retaliating. I know it's not that simple to do. 

Betson

  Along the lines of what Bardo said: during Life reviews very wise and purely PUL attuned Consciousnesses help the individual to see where they may have missed the mark and where they can improve. 

  These very wise, completed Beings do this in two ways, their very presence temporarily speeds up/expands the consciousness/ perception and vibratory rate of the individual before them to some extent or another (how much depends on the individual) and sometimes they deliberately point out a pattern, specific life event, or what not and ask the individual to think/feel on it or point out something the person missed about same. 

   It is true though, that what might be a very creative/constructive choice (or the reverse) for one individual within a certain context and situation, might not be as creative/constructive a choice (or the reverse) for another individual within a similar context and situation. 

Hence, there is some "relativity" involved.  But, in many ways, we are as similar, as we different than each other. 

  Because we are both One and Individual at the same time, both equally important, PUL can be and is the standard that applies to all, but not in a rigid way, but in a somewhat relative way. 

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the responses to my post. I really appreciate it. I will try to address everything in this one post to help keep things cohesive.

DocM...
It is my understanding there is no "external" review process either. I was raised Catholic, but was quickly broken of that belief system for a myriad of reasons. However, I did go back and reread my original post and can see how/why you may think I believed that.

If you think there is something that might be useful or I may not have considered in trying to "cut the cords" to my toxic family member, I am open and receptive to listening. I'm truly out of ideas and any insight is appreciated.

Rob_Roy...

Thanks for your comments. I ABSOLUTELY agree with you on this. I do not believe anyone of any culture, race, ethnicity, region, etc. is ALL/NONE of something. I tend to learn toward the idea that the media controls much of what we see/hear about the world around us in an effort to keep us fighting and bickering about "non-issues."

On a personal note, at one time I volunteered with a ministry involved in ministering to men in jail. I attended a few of their services inside the jail and was moved by the experience. I have been volunteering in various capacities since I was a teenager so the idea of being exposed to people I would not necessarily know or associate with in "real life" was not the issue. I remembering going around the room and sitting with the men who reached out for those of us there. One man was heavily tattooed and clearly the "leader" among his peers. I reached out to take his hand and I could see a glistening in his eyes. I opened my arms to hug him and this huge guy cried. I held on for as long as he did. That was many years ago and his face is still in my memory.

In this regard, I believe Hilter was loved and adored by the people in his life just like my family member is loved and adored by people. I am one of those people, myself. Yet, I don't believe loving someone means allowing myself to be constantly hurt by another either. I do not stand in judgment of Hilter (or anyone else). I've been on the receiving end of that and it's not helpful in the least. So, no, I am the person that people think is "crazy" and "weird" because I do NOT ever make snap judgments about people. I accept people where they are versus where I *think* they should be. It's a philosophy that's gotten me in trouble more than once. 

DocM...

You are correct. I only used Hilter as an example of someone in recent history who most people know about. I certainly don't believe he was all evil or bad (he had to gain a fair amount of allegience and the fear-factor probably wouldn't have worked very well or for long).

Betson...

Thanks for your post. I've pondered the idea that maybe that is it, but I have reason to suspect it's not. For one, I keep "repeating" the same lesson - meeting people exactly like this family member and finding myself throwing my hands up and just walking away because I refuse to engage in a fight and I don't want to be the recipient of non-sensical physical and emotional battering.

I also suspect it's not that simple because I've never been a vengeful person and don't relish in other people's misery. It is not something I've had to learn, but the way I've always been. In fact, it is a HUGE point of contention within the family because they hate the way I love people unconditionally and will reach out to help a stranger. I have no idea *why* I'm that way, but know I have always been. It never occurs to me that someone is a different race or religion or "status" in society. I feel that a person in need has crossed my path for a reason and I try to help when I can.

I honestly wish it was as simple as "just loving" this family member. I would have "passed" the lesson many moon ago if that were the case. 

Rob_Roy...

Hi again. I appreciate your comments and understand your message. I don't have trouble loving others although some people have made it difficult for me to tolerate being around them. I don't hate anybody I can think of at the moment. It's just not something that comes to me regardless of what has transpired. I know many people who know my situation have commented they don't understand why I DON'T hate the family member. I guess I don't see the value in that for me or the other person.

I recall several years ago being terminated from a job I loved. Some said it was because the President was jealous that so many clients were praising me for a job well done. Some said she was upset that her lover really admired my work ethic. I don't know the real reason behind my firing; just that I was unfairly fired. Several months after this incident, a former client called to tell me the Board fired the President and her cronies. She was gloating and laughing about the situation to which I didn't really have a response. She paused and asked me if I was "happy they were fired?" to which I told her I was not because I know what losing one's job is like and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even people who fired me unjustly. She became upset with me and said I wasn't "normal." She stopped speaking to me after that. I never understood her position because being happy for their pain wouldn't get my job back and it certainly wouldn't repair my damaged reputation from the lies they spread to various clients in the area. What possible "good" could come from me celebrating something so painful and awful? I still don't get that.

Thanks again to you all for your input. I really appreciate it.

MJD-

'She paused and asked me if I was "happy they were fired?" to which I told her I was not because I know what losing one's job is like and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even people who fired me unjustly. She became upset with me and said I wasn't "normal." She stopped speaking to me after that. I never understood her position because being happy for their pain wouldn't get my job back and it certainly wouldn't repair my damaged reputation from the lies they spread to various clients in the area. What possible "good" could come from me celebrating something so painful and awful? I still don't get that. '

Your words resonate with me. That idea of hurting the ones who hurt never really made any sense to me- logically all you get is double the hurt. I visualise people who hurt others as like being a person invited to a party who then hides in a dark broom cupboard as others have all the fun i.e evil is its own reward, no external punishment necessary. I can understand how it is natural to want to strike out at those who hurt us but forgiveness is the vision to see the ultimate folly in this.

p.s why be normal if that is normality ?!

Hitler...

For Hitler to move on he has to accept PUL into his "heart", and if he does, he will feel the pain he has caused others. If he doesn't and also doesn't get stuck in F 23, he will end up in one of the Hells of the BSTs, most likely in F 24.

In Moen's 4th book there is alot of writings about this matter of people in Hells.