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How to beat the cancer with Self-Love (Read 20692 times)
spooky2
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #45 - Jan 25th, 2012 at 9:11pm
 
Kathy gave a description of how we can drive ourselves mad, and how we can live healthily.

There is but one thing which to me seems not yet enough mentioned:
   "Self Love" implies that each of us is dissociated into at least two parts: One that loves, the other which is loved. This is nothing special, we can pat ourselves on our shoulders, and we can even accuse ourselves, as if we were two persons in one. This means, we are not like a thing, which we can point at, and it is it and that was it. The demand to love ourself insofar should make us think about what all these terms do mean alltogether.

Less theoretically, and more practically, I say about "Self Love":
-- Don't take yourself too seriously
-- After that, take the rests of yourself very seriously and analyze them, what they are
-- After that, focus on the in-between of your viewpoint and what you see as others' viewpoints.
-- After that, drop the past, drop the future, and appreciate the present. At that point, "self love" is something you can smile about. As this self has melted into the ocean of acceptance and necessity.
-- Finally, "Self-Love" turns out to be the same as "Love For Others".

  There is either love or no love: When you direct love to someone or something, you are yourself loved, when you don't love someone or something, you are, at that moment, yourself not loved, as you block it off. This is the trouble with our consciousness.


Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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crossbow
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #46 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 2:23am
 
Self-love mantra, chanted throughout the new-age movement and the feminist movement: You must love yourself before you can love others. And look how that self-love gets described and exampled - tend to your own needs, eat well, give time to yourself, do something to make you feel good, accept yourself, etc. Come on, criminals and sociopaths do that. Who is leading the way?

The feel-good self-love trend has been socially popular in the English speaking democracies and western Europe for several decades now. It is being pushed essentially by one powerful social movement, and through several fields. The self-love concept is a privelage of affluent societies that were built by previous generations of men and women who did not practice self-love, but practiced real love and self sacrifice.   

If everyone in the English speaking democracies become practicing self-lovers, with every individual living by the code that they must each "love their self before they can love others", and according to their self indulgent philosophy, tending to their own needs before attending to others, then I doubt their countries would last a few weeks before collapse. Maybe we don't need everyone to take up self-loving for that catastrophy to happen, maybe we only need a certain threshold of practitioners of self-love to tip the balance. Maybe that threshold is already tipping.

Its not the feel-good self-lovers who are daily risking their lives and being regularly injured and gradually broken down from working in heavy construction, working in foundries, mines, sewage works, driving trucks long hours for years until they die before retirement from years of sleep deprivation, guarding prisoners, fighting fires, arresting criminals, holding back those millions of enemies who with yellow-green red streaked envy are determined to destroy advancement. Fortunately, for the time being at least, there are just enough people still practicing true love, and self sacrifice, who are out their holding our countries together.

Where are the self-lovers? They are in cosy safe places practicing their feel-good self-love and preaching self-love to other feel-good junkies who hold their desire to feel good as their first priority. 

Am I just stirring the possum here? playing devil's advocate?
No. I feel pretty strongly about it. I am more than sure that love is not self-love. I am 100% certain, in belief, knowledge and experience, but I can't prove it, that love is about concern for others, love for others, working for others, helping others.      
 
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Lucy
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #47 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 5:29am
 
I'd prefer just to stick with the idea expressed in the Moorjani interview, the idea of being love. If someone wants to call that self-love that may be the best they understand.
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DocM
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #48 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 7:24am
 
In the past, I found it difficult to understand the Eastern concept of becoming one with the universe.  Individuality was not something I was keen to give up.  But this is common for most of us.  It took a while, but over time, I have come to realize that people who act out of love, or open themselves up to love, really do act without regard to thought of self.  Yet, amazingly, they do not lose their individuality in becoming love-realized!  They simply have come to such a deep understanding, they have synced their thoughts and actions, that they must love thy neighbor as thyself - for it is the only way to be.

Swedenborg recounts conversations with angels (deceased humans).  He emphasizes that they are astounded on hearing how people actually think that all of their actions on earth come merely from their own volition.  Swedenborg is told that God is really the force of love and life which flows into everyone.  Angels do not like being complimented, it seems - getting quite flustered in taking credit for their actions as individuals.  They feel the force of love, and allow it to flow throw them, and point to this as the "cause" and not them as individuals.  They think it daft that anyone one would take credit or individual pride for being in tune with this force of love.  They claim they seek no individual recognition separate from God, but that they are one with and a part of the process.  This is what is meant to love the lord with "all your heart, all your soul and all your might" (from the Old Testament).  This is why Swedenborg states that the two greatest imperatives in heaven is love of God and love of your neighbor.

So from what I gather, while we do continue to exist as individuals, developing and exploring, the personal enlightenment that comes with following the path of love, leads to tuning in to the force of love, and in turn to thoughts and actions which are not based on ego, but what we call selfless.  Yet losing ego-based thoughts does not really stop us from being who we are - we simply fulfill our potential.

M
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Lights of Love
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #49 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 12:48pm
 
Crossbow,

Absolutely love is about as you say "concern for others, love for others, working for others, helping others."  What you appear to not understand is that the best thing anyone can do to help others and to grow spiritually... become, be love as Spooky, Lucy and others have mentioned, is to change the quality of your own being, change the quality of your own consciousness.  One does that by releasing, letting go of fear and ego.  Self-improvement is what everyone's job is.  The only one you can change is yourself.  That is why each of us is here.  By changing the quality of our self, we thereby, change the quality of the whole.  It's not about what you DO, it is about what you ARE.

Regardless of what you DO... serving your country, digging ditches, guarding prisoners, fighting fires, performing surgery, counseling patients, mopping floors, running a bank, donating food, providing shelter, etc., etc., etc... If your intent is not coming from a place of love, you are not love.  It isn't about doing, it is about the intent from which the action comes that changes our being either for better or worse.

Kathy
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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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Volu
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #50 - Jan 26th, 2012 at 1:17pm
 
Crossbow,
"Self-love mantra, chanted throughout the new-age movement and the feminist movement: You must love yourself before you can love others. And look how that self-love gets described and exampled - tend to your own needs, eat well, give time to yourself, do something to make you feel good, accept yourself, etc. Come on, criminals and sociopaths do that. Who is leading the way?"

The general new age movement in my eyes subscribe to the very idea you present, others are the bullseye. Criminals and sociopaths are catering more to the body than being the spark that animates the limbs, or temple as some say. Greed. Progress is steps forward done by one's self and with (the help of) others, they're not mutually exclusive. As incarnations we're not islands, fortunately. Sheep whom should be afraid of the upstream neither, fortunately. The idea that everybody goes around brooming everyone's door but one's own rings alien to my ears.

I've never felt love for my self as I've felt for others, not by a longshot, which is fine because the image of bowing to the mirror is very silly. Though making friends with one's layers of self as well as with others will make the road easier.

"Its not the feel-good self-lovers who are daily risking their lives and being regularly injured and gradually broken down from working in heavy construction, working in foundries, mines, sewage works, driving trucks long hours for years until they die before retirement from years of sleep deprivation, guarding prisoners, fighting fires, arresting criminals, holding back those millions of enemies who with yellow-green red streaked envy are determined to destroy advancement."

Another aspect is jobs to bring home the moolah - lamps rather than fountains of light. The yellow-geen envy is similar to the goodie-two-shoes who think  mediums and other forms of psychics, authors and what not, are their servants - they should have concern for them, love for them, working for them, helping them. For free of course.
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crossbow
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #51 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 2:04am
 
Thanks for debate Ladies and Gents. Your comments reveal what I should say. I hadn't said it above because I thought the above post on the function of heart and blood had made it clear. Also I didn't want to repeat myself from old posts, such as the one on the Forgiveness thread and others, but I will anyway. This will be rushed and messy typing as I have not much time. Please excuse mess/sloppy layout.

Definitions:
Love is the hearfelt wish that others learn and grow with minimum suffering.

Forgiveness is love regardless.

Help is what we do in light of love.

Descriptions:
Love has nothing to do with loving oneself. Accepting oneself, coming to terms with oneself, being thankful for what one is and has, respecting the equipment/tools/layers/bodies that have been given to us to work through, are all good and right to do. But these things are not love. We must discern.
Love originates in God.
Love is the wish of God for life.
Love flows from the heart of God, and outward to all life. 

We tune ourselves with love. We do this by aligning our will with will of love, our heartfelt wish with the wish of love, which is God's wish for life, that suffering be minimal as life proceeds with its purpose.
Man and woman's purpose is to learn and grow and find our truest self. And suffering is inevitable along the way.
God sends forth man to find himself but not into suffering with no way out, or with no comfort, or with no light. God sends his wish, which is the light and warmth of love.

We can tune ourself with love, by wishing in our heart a heartfelt wish for others to learn and grow with minimum of suffering, and love will flow into our tuned heart from in the top and rear, then flow forth out the front.
But love only flows through the heart when we open up the heart to give love forth to others.
Like the ancient symbolic arrow through the heart, love moves in only one direction.

Love flows only outward from the heart, not back upon itself.
And when the heart is opened up and love flows out to others, its radiance fills our self as well.
But that radiance of love cannot be in us before we give love forth, for love must be in flow for it to be active, otherwise it is inactive.

Our soul is like a tap, and love is like water that may flow out of the tap.
Water only flows through the tap after the tap has opened itself to give forth flow.
Before the tap has open up to give forth flow, there is no flow.
Love is a current; when love moves it exists, when it doesn't move, there is nothing there.

Liking yourself is one thing, love is another. Love is not like or dislike. These things are irrelevant to love.

Acceptance is facing something as it is; and self acceptance is facing our self as we are, is coming to terms with our self. Acceptance enables us to come to terms with things and rightly deal with them. To see them as they are, without exaggeration or diminishment. Acceptance enables us to deal with reality, not with illusions. acceptance sees the truth.
Acceptance is necessary and good, but acceptance is not love.
We must discern differences.

Love is not a human thing. It is Divine; is of God. We tune with it, we enable it to come through us, we make it move, only by giving it away. When we give love forth then love has motion, it has current, it comes to life, and from its motion comes its radiance.

Love is a living thing, not dead, not stationary. It lives and moves and has its own consciousness, its own will, its own intelligence, its own purpose. Our heart must tune accordingly if we would have love flow through our heart.

Love's flow is only ever outward. From its beginning in the heart of God, its flow has only ever been outward. God does not love himself. He does not wish well for himself. He wishes well for life; his wish, his love, flows out to others, not himself.

We can face our self just as we are, accept we are just what we are, and take our self in prayer to God. And we can present our self to God just as we. This is repentance. Repentance is taking our self-honesty to God. And with our self-honesty we take our request for love from God; for love regardless. God's love is love regardless, he will forgives. and our honesty before him is transparency before him, makes us transparent and receptive to his love regardless. We can breathe in his love, his forgiveness, we can breath it into our soul and into our heart. But we must breathe it out again, not back to God, but breathe it out to others. Just like the tap with water flowing in and through and out, so too love flows from God through us to others.

God does not send his love down dead end channels. Only opened hearts recieve and give forth love.

When we stop giving love to others, then love is not in us. Full stop.
"Loving self before you can love others", is a false teaching; a counterfeit; is a deluded trendy fantasy; it is not love. 

Love is not stationary and does not flow back upon itself.

Love is in flow, and flows only outward.

Love is not a still pool, like a pool of water; it is a current, like a stream.

To receive it, to be in love's stream, we must attune with it, attune with its will, its wish for others, its purpose, its nature. Open up and provide our self as access for love to flow to others. Then love flows through su to others and fills us as it passes through.






   


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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: How to beat the cancer with Self-Love
Reply #52 - Jan 27th, 2012 at 11:41am
 
  Sort of related to what Crossbow has said.  It's important to love self, but to not place too much emphasis on that, but more emphasis on loving others. 

  We live in a reciprocal reality, both in the "physical" and the "nonphysical", and the underlying law in both says, we get what we give out to others, or aka Like attracts and begets Like. 

   In order to more completely love self and be more truly happy, you must first love and give out to others.  Once the process is truly started, it sets up an automatic looping effect.  Some think they are being loving or giving to others, but if there is complaint or long facedness involved, too often it's really more about self, a certain image or attachment to same, a need to feel better about self, etc.

  Here's an interesting tendency about the genders relating to love.  Men at first tend to have a harder time with loving others/self, and arguably there are less men out there open to this than there are women.  Women seem innately to have an easier time opening to love then men.

  But an interesting thing often happens when a man comes upon the importance of loving and really starts this process.  Often, the man gives himself more fully over to love than the woman and becomes a more pure and radiant conduit of Love. 

This is why so many "World Teacher" types have been born in male bodies, because at first it's more challenging, but later there is more intensity and focus. 

  All the above is only speaking as tendency and in general and averages.  It doesn't, and won't apply to some individuals, and eventually we all start to transcend gender via PUL.  (Monroe's "He/She" is a good example of the latter).

  Re: PUL in general, i find it is both a Yin/receptive process of opening up to it, and yet at the same time it is also a Yang/active process of actively choosing, doing, willing, etc.   Again, speaking on tendencies, generals and averages, it's only natural that more women over emphasize the Yin, receptive, opening up part, and more men over emphasize the Yang, active part for what does "female" mean, and what does "male" mean?

  But without both, there cannot be a perfect circulation and conduit of PUL set up within an individual.
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