Conversation Board - Open Mindedness

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Open Mindedness
Dec 20^th, 2011 at 3:36pm

Lewis Wolpert the skeptical biologist is quoted as saying 'open minds are empty minds'. By this I think he equated open-mindedness with gullibility and low intelligence.For me this is a key issue.

My personal view is that without open-mindedness to new experiences/data (to the paranormal and everything else in life) we just filter out anything which contradicts our current worldview and stagnate our evolutionary potential. But, the skeptics may reply, pure openmindedness means we'll be fooled by anything.If that is true then the $64000 question is which truth seeking device(s) do we use to distinguish the genuine from the false ? I'm interested to know others' thoughts on this.

D

Back to top

IP Logged

Focus27

Full Member

Offline

ALK Member

Posts: 183

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #1 - Dec 20^th, 2011 at 11:33pm

The bottom line is that a scientist cannot say the afterlife does not exist simply because they don't think it does. (Steven Hawking made this claim.) However, the scientist can say, "I do not think/believe the afterlife exists."

A true scientist would be open to testing any theory regardless of how ludicrous the theory may sound. The major issue is if for some reason the test cannot fit into traditional guide lines.

Back to the topic, I consider a scientist willing to test the afterlife vigorously through video cameras, testing, body cavity searches, to be a fairly open minded scientist.

Outrageous claims require strict testing.

If you claim strict testing is impossible for the matter to be tested, then lesser tests may be attempted, but the results may be considered highly questionable.

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #2 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 8:49am

Hi Focus27,

'Outrageous claims require strict testing'. But the problem comes with what constitutes an outrageous claim and who is deciding that it is so (and do they have an agenda).It seems to me rather unfair that an arbitary 2-tier system is adopted where one set of accepted standards is applied to one set of orthodox phenomena and another set to that which is labelled 'extraordinary' as in 'extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence' - heck, if we raise the bar high enough no positive evidence would ever be acceptable ! But maybe that's the point ...

D

Back to top

IP Logged

betson

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 3445
SE USA
Gender: female

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #3 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 5:28pm

Personal experience is the only way to know, but to get that experience one has to be open-minded,

so there's a conundrum.

Open-minded to the extent that energies can flow freely so that you can disengage from the gravity-loving physical mode and lift into the astral or even mental ranges. (Directions for how to do that are in books by Bruce and others.)

To me information and perceptions that open me to higher energy are what is true. Ideas etc that make me contract are not true. It's a visceral test that I cannot fake. For example, on this thread there are some posts of each

(That's why this site is so interesting, exciting even.)

Back to top

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #4 - Dec 21^st, 2011 at 5:40pm

I think you hit on a key point Betson - in order to have the experiences you have to be open (to the possibility at least) to them in the first place ! Experiences then feedback and open the door further ajar.Respected positive scientific studies etc. don't replace direct experience but they can help create the fertile environment in which experiences can happen by allaying doubts.

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #5 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 7:26am

In an interesting collaboration between a skeptic (Richard Wiseman) and a 'believer' (Marilyn Schlitz of IONS) an experiment was set up by the researchers independently but using identical protocols. The experiment was testing whether people had a psychic awareness of being stared at. The results published in the Journal of the British Psychological Society would seem to suggest that the 'experimenter effect' is a real phenomenon with the believer producing positive results and the skeptic only chance results. The paper is available at: http://www.richardwiseman.com/resources/twominds.pdf

Back to top

IP Logged

Rob_Roy Super Member Offline Posts: 539 New Hampshire, USA Gender:	Re: Open Mindedness Reply #6 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 2:33pm Dr. Wolpert's arrogance skews his view of reality, compromising his intelligence. Seriously, it's fear-based thinking. If he opens his mind he's afraid anything could fall in there. Then he'd have to start over. He wouldn't have control and his sense of security would vanish.
Back to top	IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #7 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 3:22pm

Agreed, but he is far from being a lone voice. In the quality British newspapers or on the BBC i.e. mainstream 'thinking' media you will never get any idea that there is any decent evidence that 'paranormality' exists. Ghosts, ESP etc. would be considered the province of trashy magazines, the gullible and the uninformed. Don't know if that is the case in the US.

Back to top

IP Logged

Andy B

Full Member

Offline

ALK Member

Posts: 129
Staffordshire, England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #8 - Dec 23^rd, 2011 at 4:56pm

Rob Roy,

I couldn't agree more Wink

.

Heisenburg,

I'm confused by your claim that there are quality newspapers in this country Grin

.

"Ghosts, ESP etc. would be considered the province of trashy magazines, the gullible and the uninformed."

I know what you're saying here but it makes no difference to me as I know what my experiences are and that they were as real as me typing this on this site now. It can be amusing reading some of their "explanations" for this stuff and even more amusing watching the "sceptics" lap it up as facts.

Admittedly, I am talking as a "believer" so I could be accused of being biased and before my experiences I didn't really have an opinion on this stuff. So I can't really comment how I would feel about the evidence from my former stance on this subject.

What I can say though is, the default position is "I don't know" rather than "it doesn't exist until there is extraordinary evidence to say that it does" the same goes for God too.

In a nutshell if you're a firm believer or non believer without any experience or evidence either way then you're just part of a belief system and it makes you as bad as the people you're opposing in my eyes.

(I hope this last part makes sense lol)

Andy

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #9 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 6:12am

Maybe I should have written 'quality' papers Wink

.

I think the default position of not knowing/needing more information you talk of is the open-minded honest one but also quite rare. As Rob Roy pointed out on the demon thread we are all products of our culture and if information is suppressed either consciously or unconsciously it has powerful knock on effects. We can see this graphically illustrated by the scenes in North Korea with the death of leader Kim Jong-il.

Back to top

IP Logged

eric

Junior Member

Offline

ALK Member

Posts: 53

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #10 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 8:08am

heisenberg69 wrote on Dec 20^th, 2011 at 3:36pm:

Lewis Wolpert the skeptical biologist is quoted as saying 'open minds are empty minds'.

This doesn't exactly make sense, an open mind should be maintained by all scientists. Galileo's theory that the earth revolved around the sun was met with hostility as a result of close-minded thinking. Of course a lot of the blame rests on the church for this, but you get the idea.

Scientists have strong beliefs just like everyone else, and scientists will shut themselves off to new ideas that challenge their beliefs just like everyone else.

I've received so much personal verification I don't even know where to begin, so when a skeptic pops up I don't have the time or the patience to deal with them. Not trying to be mean, that's just how I feel. If skeptics would take an ounce of effort and use Moen's or Monroe's methods, they would see for themselves.

Back to top

IP Logged

heisenberg69

Super Member

Offline

Posts: 504
England
Gender: male

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #11 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 12:23pm

I agree that individual scientists are just people with the same prejudices, hang ups etc. as everyone else but one thing I like about science itself (at least when done properly !)is that things are not just accepted as facts just because someone prominent or respected said its true (unlike faith-based belief systems).For example Einstein was an acknowledged genius, but his idea of a cosmological constant ('my biggest mistake') was ultimately rejected by his peers.

Back to top

IP Logged

Just Me

Full Member

Offline

ALK Member

Posts: 151
Gender: female

Re: Open Mindedness
Reply #12 - Jan 14^th, 2012 at 2:00pm

I've heard people say having an open mind leaves room for your brain to fall out. lol

I think the unwillingness to consider new or different ideas (of any kind) implies that one already knows everything there is to know and everything is judged by those beliefs. Clearly, that is not the case, so it doesn't follow that anyone should be "close minded" about anything. If there "measure" of things is correct, the new information will be refutable. Otherwise, it can add to the collective information base already established. Therefore, I have never understood why so many people are vehemently opposed to hearing new and/or different ideas. There is absolutely nothing to lose by consideration.

Back to top

IP Logged

Bardo Senior Member Offline Posts: 291 Gender:	Re: Open Mindedness Reply #13 - Jan 14^th, 2012 at 6:00pm Surely you need to have a hypothesis in order to conduct scientific experimentation, and a hypothesis is a kind of provisional opinion. But an open mind in forming the hypothesis and to the results which may prove or disprove it seems essential. Without an open mind, where would inspiration find its way in?
Back to top	IP Logged

crossbow Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 207 Gender:	Re: Open Mindedness Reply #14 - Jan 15^th, 2012 at 11:24pm heisenberg69 wrote on Dec 20^th, 2011 at 3:36pm: ... My personal view is that without open-mindedness to new experiences/data (to the paranormal and everything else in life) we just filter out anything which contradicts our current worldview and stagnate our evolutionary potential. ... So true.
Back to top	IP Logged