Hi all,

I found this documentary on the Scole experiments and I have to say I found it rather good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6qSEi_sfaSU

It has been removed before so it may happen again, maybe copyright reasons?

Andy

As amazing a case for an afterlife as has ever presented on this site!  Very long and somewhat uneven, but at its best absolutely astounding!

I was initially impressed by the Scole Experiment, until I went deeper into it and found that the scientific aspect of this was less than meets the eye.  The experiments were done in the basement home of two of the mediums.  They were most always done in complete darkness, except that glowing wrist bands were worn by the mediums, so you could see them in the dark.  However, this was an old parlor trick done years ago, to fool people.  The mediums forbade them to use night vision technology or similar video  - but why?  The mediums controlled the environment in their house, not the scientists. 

I will post a link that describes in detail how the science to this was not up to the sniff test.  For example one of the more impressive findings was that they would take a factory uopened role of film, but it in the center of the room, turn off the lights, and then it would be there but when developed would have a message on the film from the spirit world.

However, the box that the film was placed in was controlled by the mediums.  When a researcher (whose name is in an article I will provide) used his own box, and maintained control of the upopened film - surprise surprise - there was no writing on the film.

The bottom line for me is that people are very convinced by materializations of objects and the like but the many of these things may be parlor tricks unless the scientists control the environment. 

I would suggest that it really is unlikely that current techniques to communicate will be this good, and this clear, otherwise they could be replicated over and over again. 

Even in great religions, Judaism and Christianity, I don't recall the leaders, prophets or saviours presenting these types of communications.  Miracles - yes, in the physical world.  Jesus may or may not have raised the dead, and likely did heal many - but he did not bring Uncle Morty out to a pitch black room with two mediums to make a table float in the air.


Doc

I only watched the first part and having seen just that much, I'm in agreement with Matthew.  Based on my own knowledge and experience things just don't work the way they're presented in the film.

Kathy

heisenberg69 wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2011 at 9:53pm:


Hi there!

I'm not sure if your addressing me directly or not. I haven't posted on this board for a long time, so I realize you most likely haven't read any of my posts, but I'm certainly not debunking the existence of the afterlife, nor the paranormal. 

I have no doubt of the existence of both as I've experienced what people call the paranormal for more than 50 years now, and the past 30 or so years my experiences have been on a daily basis.  Infact, I feel as though I'm aware of and exist in and interact with both "worlds" simultaneously on a conscious level. 

What I doubt is the credibility of the experiments I saw in the film and of the mediums involved based on my personal knowledge of what non-physical reality is like and how it interacts with each of us. And this isn't to say everything in the film was "faked" however, if even one experiment was "tampered" with, that alone then brings up questions in regards to the others.

Common sense is a good thing. 

Kathy 

Further to this - physical mediumship is alive and well in the notable form of David Thompson ( see: http://circleofthesilvercord.net/ ). Dr Fiona Bowie of the Bristol University Anthropology Department reviews her experience of a David Thompson seance on her website 'The Afterlife Research Centre' available at: http://afterliferesearchcentre.ning.com/ .

I have no doubt that over the entire length of the Scole experiments it is possible that paranormal results were encountered.  I, like Kathy, feel that common sense is important, and mostly I didn't think the preliminary rounds passed the sniff test.

There is no reason I know of that the mediums should dictate the rules or pre-conditions, and make it so dark that the participants had to put on glowing wrist bands, which were a common parlor trick back then to convince a sitter that the medium hadn't moved, when, in fact they had.

Some of the proof offered -  such as placing unopened photographic 35 mm film in a box, turning off the lights, and then opening up the "lock box" and later developing the film - - all this just smacks of tricksterism. 

Think of all the 35 mm film developed before the digital age.  While there were instances of unexplained phenomenon on film (orbs - many of which are dust related),  I know of no other instances of elaborate writing coming through from the other side like this.  If so, why?   Clearly this was set up as a parlor trick.

The best objective experiments would only be set up by the scientists, where basic conditions would be controlled by them, and not the mediums/mystics. 

Objective science is, however based on the physical world and physical senses.  Spirit/consciousness is not bound by physicality.  The idea that the afterlife must be "proved" by writing on a roll of camera film, speaks to the ignorance about real knowledge or perception. 

People will only be open to the existence of the afterlife if they let go of belief systems which only recognize the five senses as reliable evidence.

M

Andy,

congratulations - you've managed to do something I never have, get people on this board talking about  the Scole Experiments ! Regarding Richard Wiseman I'm not sure if he needs to  directly 'fiddle' results only to have a closed minded perspective. You know, living in the UK as I do, that when some debunking needs  to be done its either him or Susan Blackmore who is looked to but I'm not sure that they are essentially dishonest, at least not consciously so. Rather, they are  subject to the 'experimenter effect' whereby they produce consistently negative results even if they perform experiments with the exact protocols used by those getting positive results because the experimenter's expectations is always a variable in the investigation.


Mathew – ‘The best objective experiments would only be set up by the scientists, where basic conditions would be controlled by them, and not the mediums/mystics’.

To this I will directly quote from the conclusion of the ‘Scole Report’ :
‘... (critics say) if only you had thought (or been able) to control for .... Field work in psychical research is so vulnerable to this kind of dismissive verdict that one may well question if in fact it is worth the major investment time, energy and money it involves. Our answer is that in any area of human behaviour, effects that are only observable under the tightly controlled conditions of a laboratory are not really of enduring use or interest. If psychic abilities exist, then they may reasonably be supposed to happen not just in the laboratory or real life, whether in the séance room or in familiar surroundings. If they do, it is reasonable to propose that they are worth looking into, that efforts be made to find the ways in which they are compatible with the rest of our known science: indeed, ways in which they may not only add to our scientific knowledge, but augment our understanding of what it is to be human and whether or not life carries meaning outside that attributed to it by reductionist philosophies’.

‘I have no doubt that over the entire length of the Scole experiments it is possible that paranormal results were encountered’.

I don’t quite understand this, you seem to be implying  that the Scole events were maybe part genuine/part fraudulent. But any positive evidence of paranormality would invalidate the sceptics position according to William James famous dictum about it only taking one white crow to establish that not all crows are black. Again it’s important to point out that no investigator actually present at the events (lasting multiple years remember) suspected fraud was taking place. Its not impossible that the events were all carefully fabricated (requiring the cooperation of many people) but then there is a finite possibility that the moon landings were staged too !