Lucy wrote on Dec 16^th, 2011 at 2:40pm:

Lucy,
Thank you for directing me to that question and answer page. I should better have looked for such a page myself and read it. That was some slackness on my part.
No I have not read anything written by or about Bruce Moen, except (from memory) two of Bruce's posts on this forum. I am aware that he is the administrator of this forum, and that at the top of the forum page is a notification that his books, tapes and home study course are available. I expect he is a fine gentleman who knows his subject well.
"How did I end up here anyway?"
I googled a word and the site came up. I then made a post.
It has been a pleasure visiting this forum and reading people's thoughts and experiences, and contributing some of my own.   

Volu,

Volu said: "Maybe you can breathe life into your idea about speaking and writing by making your own thread on the board..."

Crossbow responds: Thank you for an interesting idea Volu, and one I had not thought of. If I were to do that I would of course seek permission from the site Administrator before doing so. I am in process of exploring several options and the fors and againsts associated with them. It is a time consuming job. I will include your idea in my research. Another forum user has also offered me some good ideas and been most encouraging for which I am also very thankful. 

Volu, here are some responses with some points you might find interesting and worth considering:


V.  "Love, too soft and doing best for others to the point of losing the self has been easy, and so cultivating strength has been a focus for quite a while. Volu as a nickname is simply short for volume. Worshiping becomes too submissive compared to appreciation. Truth and truths change as the path unfolds."

CB.  I am warmed to hear a man saying he is working on cultivating strength. Our western societies have too many good but weak men; we need more good and strong men. We have a critical unwellness in our western societies in which weakness presents itself as virtuous. False love, false courage, and sophism, have infiltrated our societies and weakened us substantially. Against natural order weakness is rewarded above strength, inability above merit; fear, anxiety, weakness, inadequacy is given more advantage, promoted, considered more credible, compensated, allowed more opportunity and less accountability. Strength of character, individuality, individual initiative, ability to cope, manage, adjust, overcome, is little acknowledged and certainly not rewarded or compensated. Western societies are, at present, advantaging the weak and those who play the victim. I am pleased to converse with a man who values and cultivates strength.  

Volu, there is nothing soft about the love I know. And I think you are sensing the love I mean, for you can see the wrongness and weakness of the false loves, the false virtues, so commonly displayed at present. So don't turn off from practicing love just because the common example is of soft love. As certain as I live, I am certain there is a love that is suitable for you to exercise. It is a love that is only wielded by the strong. Courage is its hallmark; it is a strength of heart. This love is a heartfelt wish that another/s learn and grow in whatever way is right for them and with a minimum or suffering upon them. This love does not soften us or limit us, or limit others, but frees us from our unwanted ways, and from unproductive interpersonal entanglements, it makes us our own person, independent and strong. It helps us do what must be done, what is right to do by others and by our own highest standards, whatever the situation calls for, whatever is required, love helps us do it.

Truth too, is strong. Truth changes yes, but is always the same in essence and in definition, for truth is existence, is how things are, is what is, in its parts and in its sum total. Truth is invincible. What better ally to have than truth, to attune our mind and heart with. All we need do is recognise what truth is, come to know it, and let it in to us. If we value truth above all else, then our preconceptions, our assumptions, our preferences, will all stand aside, and our mind will clear and we will see things as they are. But first we must know that truth is how things are, is what is, is existence, in parts and in sum total, and value that above all else, most especially above our own preferences.    

Worship is giving credence to where it belongs, and credence belongs to truth. And only to truth. For there is nothing else that exists, for all that exists is of the truth. Worship is not subservient, but rather is respectful; is the recognition of standing. The recognition and acknowledgement of Truth is all that worship is - not of the particular presentation or aspect of truth, but of the overall concept of truth - that truth exists. Appreciating the concept of truth is worship of truth.

And yes, appreciation is a power too. It is an apprehending in mind and heart of what is true. It brings the truth inside us, makes truth ours to benefit from and to use.

Comprehension of things is in their definitions. For a definition of something is what it is in words - inscribed precisely. So our first step to comprehension is to seek a definition of what we wish to comprehend. But to do this, we must put aside our preferences and be receptive to truth.
 
V. "The interest is there because I've found what you write to be interesting, not trying to be nice for the sake of being nice though not really wanting to be nice but ok since one's supposed to be nice involved."

Cb.  Yes, I understand. I appreciated courtesy, but I wish for a man to be himself, whatever he is, to do what needs doing, whatever it is, and to speak his mind and say what needs saying, whatever it is, than for a man to try too hard to be "nice" and end up being a soppy reflection of other people's expectations or of some fashionable social ideal. There are too many men like that around. Honestly don't we all prefer a blunt, rough and honest man, even an offensive one, who knows himself, and who is strong enough to be himself, to a man who is "nice", pc and inoffensive but is not himself?   

V.  "Keeping it simple and short, I walked out on religion and the higher self appeared. A lot of super interesting and mind blowing information came about, and also information about many aspects of life on earth that has been harder to deal with but possible due to previous experiences. Still trying to process everything and at the same time learn more. My view now is to deal with the issues I already know about and be ready for new ones - and maintain, renew, discontinue and make new friendships."

Cb.  That's a lot that you have touched upon. I think I get the picture. You have a job to do. 

I encourage those who turn away from religion not to do so in an emotionally reactive way that throws the baby out with the bath water, so to speak. For despite their apparent failings there are great truths to be found within the religions. It does not hurt to look at things objectively and discerningly, and then to take on board and explore subjectively what makes good sense, while not taking on board what does not make sense.

The commonest human fallacy is that opposite a wrong is a right. But in fact the opposite to a wrong is usually just an opposite wrong. The truth is usually found in between the two and up at a right angle.

Lucy wrote on Dec 20^th, 2011 at 5:57am:

Lucy,
Yes, of course I apply that to women too. Your question suggests I might expect women to be otherwise, perhaps portray themselves falsely. I prefer a woman who does not try too hard to be like other women, who knows who she is, whoever and whatever she is, and who can think for herself and be herself.

Personally I am pleased when I see a women who does not get upset when she hears or thinks she hears a distinction being made between men and women. I like women who are confident in their womanhood, who realise they are equal and different to men; who do not need to mimic men or compete with men, but who are confident in their own human and feminine virtues and powers.

I believe both men and women are best to be true to themselves, to find and know and be themselves, than to try to present according to an image which they think others might admire to the extent that they even lose themselves and don't know who they are. (I italicised women just for you Lucy, so you can feel assured that I am including you and all women in my statement.)    

Re. Do I defer to "babes"? Lucy, I hope you are not hinting that you would like me to address you as babe. If you are I would prefer to decline and address you in a more respectful way. I do not call women babes, nor think of them as babes. I have written nothing on this forum to suggest that I do.

Lucy wrote on Dec 20^th, 2011 at 5:57am:


There is no problem here. Love your neighbour as your self, simply means treat others as you would prefer to be treated if you were them. It does not mean appeasing the demands, desires and emotions of others. It means being fair and reasonable, and doing what we think is best by others. It is probably the closest to an overall rule to dealing with others, even if it seems to have some lacking in certain situations. When one truly tries to do it, with no pretence or alterior motive, then the love experienced elevates oneself above any emotional misunderstandings. Like when a loving mother denies a child what the child wants and instead gives the child what he needs. Or a crook demands our wallet and is instead given a punch; or an invader wants and demands entry to a country, but is instead denied it and sent back home. False love might appease such wants and demands, but true love sees over them and does what is best. If I were to make a wrongful demand of someone else or attempt to do them wrong then I hope they would knock me back and set me straight in as fair and practical a way as possible, even if it had to involve them doing me some hurt to prevent me from doing them wrong.   

You raise an interesting dilema with extremely premature babies. The matters of keeping alive extremely premature babies destined to a life of ailments and incapacity, of abortion and euthanasia are surface dressings upon the more substantial subject of which such questions are a part. What is the purpose of life? When starts life? When finishes life? When is a life not fulfilling its rightful purpose and can therefore be terminated? Mankind as a whole does not have these answers yet. We do not yet know for sure what life is, or what its purpose is. Some individuals might, but their numbers are relatively small and their knowledge is of little social significance. The truth of the matter must eventually be widely known, be demonstratable to all, or at least most, and be understood by most. Then as a society we can be more sure of making the right decisions on such matters as abortion and euthanasia. Until then, as individuals and as a society, we can only make our best and fairest and most practical decisions, and continue to wonder at, debate, and investigate the purpose of life.