Albert, Chill man. I wasn't calling you out. If anything I thought you'd be in agreement with that statement. I think any person can say whatever they want ...but that includes me.

Beau:

Considering that a fair number of the posts before your post were written by me, it seemed sensical to conclude that you were refering to me. Plus, I considered how you spoke well of Tolle in the past. Perhaps you were referring to people who refer to themselves as enlightened. If so, I apologize for concluding differently.

Regarding chilling out, you're right, to some degree I need to chill out.

Just so it is clear, I don't mean to imply that everything Tolle says is wrong. If a person is wise they'll take what is useful.

Beau wrote on Oct 25^th, 2011 at 6:44pm:

Quote:



   I wasn't familiar with dualism versus nondualism teachings before now, so I checked it out on the internet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

   I agree with you about nondualism most likely being an erroneous belief. Not only do I embrace the belief in all of us being of separate consciousness from God, though spiritually connected to God, I believe our ultimate goal is to first achieve Soul consciousness, then eventually God consciousness so we can be active co workers with God in this physical plane and/or the other planes (focus levels) that exist.

   I don't like considering the physical world to be only a world of maya (illusion). I believe the physical plane to be reality, yet only a portion of total reality which makes up all of existence (all focus levels, planes, dimensions, etc.). Notice I always say I believe first because I don't want anyone thinking I know the answers (for ego's sake or whatever reason). I always try to avoid ego's entrapments, but find it necessary to have an ego up to a point for survival in the physical.

Quote:


   I hope you reconsider and stay on the board. I love reading your posts and I don't think you're pushy at all. If you ever meet my wife, you would find out what pushy really is.   

Bruce Moen wrote on Oct 19^th, 2011 at 9:16pm:


   In some ways, this is relatively true, and yet in my communications with the Co-Creator, I haven't gotten such a passive/Yin feeling from 'him" about this issue.   He seems to be rooting (and working his butt off) for all of us to do this sooner than later.  There are probably really big picture reasons for this. 

  Certainly my own Disk has been putting pressure on me to complete this process sooner than later.  Again, i'm sure there are probably good reasons for this as well. 

  Maybe it's as simple as The Whole at the most creative, PUL attuned level, wants to be completely healed and truly whole?  As long as one part hurts, all hurt to some extent.  The more who fully heal themselves, the faster and easier the healing process for all becomes.

  So, I would say that "probably" it does matter some, relatively speaking, how long it does take us.  Not in a comparison way or anything like that, but related to the above process of healing of the Whole I touched on.

p.s., hope you and Pharon are doing well down in sunny FL--please tell her i say "hello!"
   

Hi Recoverer,

thanks for you reply. Firstly, I completely agree (and I suspect most people on this board) with your first point, blind following is never good.

Regarding your other points let me elaborate on my idea  that the schism between duality and non-duality may be more apparent than real.I believe that they are explanations operating on fundamentally different levels.

Let me give an everyday example to explain what I mean.Suppose that a mother has a teenage daughter who falls deeply in love and she is jilted.The daughter is devastated, she feels her life is at an end and considers suicide.From her mother's (meta/non-dual) perspective she sees that there will be others, life goes on, part of life's rich tapestry etc etc. It seems to me that we on this board are like bystanders tring to decide who is 'right'. Some of us identify more with the daughter's (duality) perspective and others the mother's meta perspective.

Who is right ? They both are depending on your perspective !

Heisenberg,

I like your example of the daughter vs. mother way of thinking about duality - except if your daughter were Juliet or Ophelia from Shakespeare's works - she might not realize that there are more fish in the sea before she went crazy or died out of grief...

Of course from a meta view, that wouldn't be a real worry, as she might be initially set back by her actions, and then evolve anyway, but in the near term - better for the mother to really sit down and get the message through.

The thing about the "every source of information may be valuable" (with proper discernment) approach is, that there are consequences of thought and action (even if, on a grander scale the small scale doesn't matter).  The "Juliet example" shows that there is much suffering to be had if we don't help each other in approaching sources of information. 

We are not meant to detach from all others as we evolve in spirit.  Love of others implies that we are connected even if we feel our own spiritual connectedness in a non-dualistic way.  We still try to help out and guide others - and this implies using our well condisered opinions and our plunge back into the physical world with its dualities. 

M

recoverer,

"Thanks Volu, but I wonder if my days at a forum like this are numbered. Even though I really make an effort of trying to share what I have found through years of experience, I don't want to be pushy. I guess people will have differing thoughts as to what is pushy and what isn't. I know there are times when I have been pushy."

I've had similar thoughts several times. It's another flaw with light polarity - wanting to help but end up imposing, and I don't like being there. Going away though I miss the conversation about spiritual subjects which I find rare in the physical life, where who's related to who, where they live and what line of work seems to be a recurring mundane interest. All boring body stuff to me.

"You know, if I joined a fundamentalist Christian forum and questioned some of the things people at such a forum believe, I'd get similar responses. People would assume that I didn't know what I was talking about. All I can say is that I'm not the only person who through "experience" has found what the whole nonduality thing is about. It would be great if we could share what we found, but perhaps many people prefer to learn the hard way."

DIY sticks because it's your experience becoming a known and not a belief based on others' experience. The seeds which we deem to be good are planted by handing over our very best advice, and if not cared for, people should be totally free to ignore that or else polarity and control issues come into play and the situation gets messy.

Dissent, disagreeing, friction, and yet not diminishing each other, I like that concept, but the road to that place can only be found by walking there. Pushy I know all about in a forum environment. Being afraid to voice one's opinion is equally challenging and not right too.

Thanks Recoverer, and OutOfBodyDude, you both gave me something to think about.