ottawa1 wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2012 at 9:07am:


I wouldn't say that it didn't work, but instead that it didn't bring about the desired outcome of intention of the group.  I think what's at work is consciousness, not specific outcomes, and we don't always know what's best and why.  There are usually reasons beyond our ability to see, know, and understand why some things need to happen.  Therefore, prayers and good intentions aren't always going to bring about the outcome we desire.  That's because our specific desired outcome is acutely narrowed to only one possibility... in this case the intent was desiring Romain to survive the cancer.  However, if his soul had other plans and reasons for leaving the physical realm now, that then becomes a critical moment in consciousness in which it's likely that no amount of good, conscious prayers and intentions otherwise can change.  Those are just my speculations.

What I do really trust and believe is that true focused conscious intention (prayer or whatever else you want to call it), when done the right way actually isn't about the desired outcome, despite the fact that that's why we pray.  Instead, what it actually turns into is a shift in one's own consciousness, and that then becomes the "work" being done.  When our consciousness shifts or raises to another state, we're then able to see things differently or see, know, and understand more or in a different way than we could have from another level of consciousness.  Our normal every-day level of consciousness typically is so focused on the physical and our immediate needs and desires here in keeping and holding onto what we have and know, that it's very difficult to want our reality to change, let alone be able to see any good reason for change. 

And I really do believe in the power of the focused intentions of a group.  Again, it's purpose isn't only about the desired intention and outcome but morphs into a raising of consciousness of all involved.  It's inevitable that once consciousness is raised, it opens perception based on the change in perspective of awareness.  I imagine this has a direct effect not only on an individual basis but on the whole as well.  If the consciousness of the whole sets out a change in outcome based on that, the individual still always has free will to do what it wants, but it may be that much harder to change something.  But I always wonder, if "going against the grain" so to speak sometimes has more effect simply because once something becomes complacent, conscious focus is no longer given and therefore a new, even single conscious focus coming into play can have a window of opportunity there to really make a difference.  To me, this is the sort of shift I'm talking about.  We do become complacent inside ourselves on a day to day basis, and it takes a great impact in our lives to force us to make such a shift in consciousness in the first place.  But is it enough to cause the change we want?  We just don't really know all the factors involved.  In the end, we have to just assume that Romain's soul and spirit has its own reasons for that outcome.  I don't believe life and death are random accidents, but instead are what we as conscious beings are always creating and directing.  Each present moment is an opportunity for consciousness.

Vicky

It is kind of strange to think that there might be something desirable (to the soul, probably not to the personality) about going through the experience of dying from a nasty cancer. I can't imagine that Romain would not want to share what he has learned with us. Why is the veil so thick.

The stories that do trickle through from the other side are often quite enticing. It certainly sounds more pleasant THERE than HERE. Sometimes it seems selfish to try to heal someone. Vee I do like your comment that the body has a mind of its own. I imagine if life on earth were to go forward, the instinct for physical survival would have to be intense.

ottawa1 if you are still around, I wonder if you have read of Anita Moorjani? She had an NDE and came back from cancer. She said she chose to come back because she realized that God is a state of being and so it doesn't matter where you are. Experiencing her own magnificence showed her what she was doing "wrong" and caused her to change. Maybe NDE's work better than prayer. It is just that they are so difficult to produce. : )

But so is that experience that God is a state of being. I imagine that prayer was invented to do that, and maybe some people learn to do it "right" but it is such a hackneyed experience I don't see how it could accomplish much. Do you really know how to experience that god state of being when you pray? If so, please share.

I too am a believer in the power of thought/prayer to heal.  But I don't think it is a "carte blanche" to stay in the physical plane.   

Think of it this way.  There is a certain combination of physical laws at play in our bodies.  Romain may have had a carcinogen introduced through diet or an activity at some point.  Or it may have combined with a genetic factor.  These things play out in the background, without it being "right" or "wrong" - it just is.  The cancer is not a punishment, it just happens.  The soul/Romain doesn't die.  Now to us here who cared about him, and knew he was loving, it appears to be a terrible tragedy.  And we try to make sense of it.  But sometimes things just are what they are, and there is no perfect master plan requiring a reasoned answer to why it happened.  When a tsunami killed over 100,000 people, I doubt very much that it was in the best interest of all of them to die that day.  There are certain mortal dangers that just spring up, and we don't always have control over them. 

That being said, I believe in the power of faith and positive thought.  I am not perfect in applying it in my own life, but I strive to.  I know Romain did as well.


M