Hi Matthew,

"I think that whatever your conscious state of mind is remains unchanged when you die - initially. If someone is so distraught over emotional issues that they kill themselves, there is no reason to think that just being rid of their physical body, they will change their thought process and go to one of the heavens."

Yes, getting rid of the body isn't a magic wand because emotions are within, but.. there are other places to go than heavens, like the healing centre in focus 27. Bodies are like organic computers, and spirits temporarily merge with these programmed vehicles. It's not always easy to separate what thoughts originate from the deepest parts of who you are (mature or immature as the spirit may be), or the always immature body. New agers call this the inner child which just adds a mysterious mist to something straightforward. Doubts and fears are something bodies excel at computing. Afraid to die? That's the body. What is operating the body don't dwell on that as it is eternal and has always been. Part of this design is that nobody truly gets lost, disappear or cease to exist. Except for bodies.

Does having a body make things different? Sure, that's why "people" come to earth.

"More than likely, from all we know of the afterlife, your thought takes you to a level where you best fit in.  And in this case, I think that really stacks the odds against those who commit suicide.  It is not that people can't move on, but it must be quite difficult."

There are astral planes where sparks with distorted emotions go as part of like attracting like, and the planes are there because they serve a greater purpose - a space to work it out. And sometimes they as we get a little help from our friends. The most important factor however is the connection to the disk/greater self.

"You see it is different if someone is dying of a disease with intractable pain.  In that instance, the person, can be of sound mind and say, that while their consciousness dwells in love, they simply know that their physical form is beyond regenerating."

Physical pain dies with the body as it is of the body.

"A suicide done for depression or emotional reasons is quite a different subject.  In that case, the emotions have no reason to be altered when the physical body is shed.  Then, if there are surviving loved ones who suffer, from losing that person, it must magnify their grief 1000 fold."

1000 fold is wee bit heavy on the drama, and I do have a sense of where that comes from. Emotions have just as much reason to change when the body is shed, as earth isn't the alpha and the omega.

For the survivors, now they know at least a smidget how terrible suffering can be. Sadness and grief can occur too when somebody's body just happens to drop dead out of nowhere, and it will happen eventually.

"I don't believe all suicidal souls are hopeless in the afterlife, but I do think that if "like attracts like," that they are making a bee-line path to a horrible afterlife realm, based on their pre-morbid emotional state.  It is not a condemnation from God, but rather from their own judgement of themselves."

No suicidals are hopeless. Like attracting like happens here too and it's not the end of the world nor end of a path. An extended play in focus 27 and god won't be a problem anymore if it ever was. Progress is inevitable, here or somewhere else.

Bottom line, do I recommend suicide? No, not at all, but I do recommend a general increase in the understanding department, especially if one's involved with retrievals. If what one truly think is that suicides are a waste of time, being a retriever/helper with these cases are not for you. Someone who died in a bed of roses may be more like it. They both would have made even a minuscule bit of progress in their lives, but the one whose death happened by own decision could remind a retriever that they're not quite there yet regarding knowing they're not bodies. Fair enough.

It may be true that some people go to an unpleasant place or a purgatory. I don't know.

But, a retrieval I once did showed the person in a peaceful outdoor setting. And the info was verified, as far as I was concerned. There was supervision, and the info did come from a guide who 'let me' see the info. I assumed that was the person's actual state, but it could have been info meant to comfort the family. It was verified, in my mind, by matching info I got about the victim later.

Still, I don't think people are just left to suffer in the afterlife. When people talk about 'stuck' souls being 'wherever they are' for 1000s of years, etc. I just have a hard time with it. A single moment can feel like an eternity to someone who is suffering, and that moment could be stored forever, and then 'seen' as actually lasting that long.

hi dianna my darling sis    i know how you feel as our mother always said that we were not what she wanted and i to as you know grew up thinking i wasn't good enough to here on the earth plain,i also as you know think of suicide most of the time ,but like you my children make me want to live and i love god with all my heart as well

He also has a purpose for me and i  know that oneday we will both rest in his beautiful land away from the mental torture we have both and still have sometimes even now,i know we are twins but we have lived very similar lives on this plain,but god will deliver us both from hell on earth to peace in his comforting arms,for the twins that never belonged.

That's why life has got a lot to answer for.

Love and god bless  love juditha xxxxxx

Matthew,
DocM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2011 at 11:02pm:


I agree.  In that initial stage the thoughts and feelings we are holding at death can strongly influence us.  What happens after that depends on a lot of factors.

The movie, What Dreams May Come, did a good job or portraying someone who's state of mind in her suicide death led her to be stuck.  The feelings that led her to suicide led her into her own private hell.  And though a little Hollywoodized her retrieval by her husband, the Robin Williams character, well done also.

I had only a very few criticisms of that movie accuracy-wise, for me it is a great movie.

Bruce