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catholic miracles (Read 19467 times)
Beau
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #15 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 4:06pm
 
The Bible is not Jesus.
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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
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recoverer
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #16 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 4:15pm
 
Jdee:

It isn't as if the Bible was written by the hand of God and then it fell out of the sky. Its chapters were written by men and men decided which chapters became a part of the book. At some point these chapters were translated in various ways. There are different versions of the Bible and numerous Christian denominations.

When it comes to what Jesus' life was all about and what he said, things such audio recording devices didn't exist while he was alive. The story of his life and what he said was passed along by word of mouth for years before anything was written. Then the above referred to selection and translation process took place.

If a person tries to figure out what's true while being influenced by fear, there is a good chance he (or she) won't figure out what's true because fear will prevent him from doing so.  As long as we have good intentions we don't need to be afraid to consider certain possibilities simply because they differ from what a book says or how some people interpret that book.

I really find it hard to believe that God would set up a pass or fail test that requires you accept Jesus or you will end up in hell for all of eternity. Finding your way to a higher realm is more about living according to qualities such as unconditional love and humility. If you do so, then you will quite naturally be in tune with beings who do the same and will create a beautiful, wonderful and harmonious existence accordingly.

I've found that the more I've freed myself from fear-based concepts, the more I've been able to experience divine love.  There are other people who have done the same. On the other hand there are some people who are so afraid of their concepts about God and Jesus that they have a hard time opening up to unconditional divine love.

If you have a place in your heart for Christ this is fine, but fear and love do not go together. It is impossible to truly love and respect another if you believe that you better do so or else.

Does it make sense to conclude that Jesus wants people who are obedient to him because they are afraid not to be obedient to him? Only a narcissistic-power hungry person (being) would expect such obedience.
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recoverer
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #17 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 4:22pm
 
Grin

He would probably thank you for that Beau.


Beau wrote on Sep 11th, 2011 at 4:06pm:
The Bible is not Jesus.

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Lucy
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #18 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 6:04pm
 
Quote:
... only believers of Christ are saved


Does it explicitely say "only"  ? If so , where?
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jdee190
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 4:48am
 
Its just the miracles, especially the Marian appiritions where it brought messages of be a Catholic, go to confession or go to Hell

And the eucharistic miracles just makes me fear the Catholic church is right.
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Beau
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #20 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 8:09am
 
If you are fearing it, Jdee, then perhaps as others have said, you should consider that first. There is no truth in an apparition saying to be Catholic or any other organized religion, in my opinion. Look at the history of the Catholic church and then decide for yourself if they are capable of lying and then how probable it is that they are. And even if it isn't the church it is still word of mouth from a group that holds the church in high esteem ...because they are afraid not to.
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jdee190
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #21 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 8:40am
 
Alot of the stuff in the Catholic Church is good but there is alot of corruption.

I cant get over the fact that these appiritions are a message from God because normal people seen it. It also makes God look like an evil tyrant
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Beau
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 8:53am
 
I can only take issue with the word "fact". Even gravity is not a fact, merely a highly probable theory.
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recoverer
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #23 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 12:33pm
 
I haven't experienced stigmata,  but I've experienced divine love, and I consider this to be much more valuable. In fact, I have no interest in experiencing stigmata.

I've experienced divine love even though I'm not a Catholic. I believe that Jesus was an evolved soul when he was in this World, but not a dictator.

A true miracle would be if the Catholic church showed some unconditional love towards homosexual people and stop thinking of them as if they are sinners.
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jdee190
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #24 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 1:31pm
 
Im not homosexual, im as straight as you will get.

But the Catholic Church's rules on contraception and homosexuals is nothing short of disgraceful.
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Bardo
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #25 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 3:20pm
 
Jdee,
Speaking for myself, I would be highly skeptical of any doctrine, document or person who "makes God look like an evil tyrant".
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jdee190
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #26 - Sep 13th, 2011 at 11:01am
 
Thank you for your help.

What do you all make of the miracle of Lanciano? And Blessed Alexandrina who only ate Communion for years and survived?

Also if anyone could provide similar miracles of other religions it would be a great help!
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #27 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 12:48am
 
Though not Catholic myself, I taught at a Catholic university in New York for 12 years and am now a United Methodist minister.   In my experience, no thinking Catholic would claim that their best miracles "prove" anything.  Most of them would claim that these miracles "support" their faith, but not in the sense of confirming their whole belief system.  One's spirituality and the power of one's faith are two different phenomena.  In my experience, some of the most gifted Christian prayer adepts are very simplistic and, on some issues, naive in their belief system.  But their intimacy with God allows them to be used spectacularly in the realm of "answered" prayer and paranormal phenomena.  What is more interesting to me is this: some Catholic saints have experienced OBEs in the  form of bilocaton is a manner better attested than most modern research in parapsychology.  As I have time, I'll illustrate this in an effort to relate this thread to the purpose of Bruce's site.
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jdee190
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #28 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 8:55am
 
Can anyone find any similar miracles of other religions?

Cheers
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DocM
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Re: catholic miracles
Reply #29 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 3:57pm
 
Jdee,

The following link tracks miraculous healings in the Jewish tradition.  He cites numerous examples in the old testament, and then during the period of the writing of the Talmud of miraculous healings related to prophets and holy men. 

However, in general, the idea of miraculous healing was shunned as a practice, as sort of an affront to the natural order of things.  But examples do come out in stories of holy men:

http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/fulltext/2007/12000/eye_on_religion__a_...

It is specifically stated in this well written article that the Jewish bible cautions equating holiness or spirituality with supernatural events:

"In general, however, the rabbis were cautious about such miracles. In part, this hesitancy to endorse supernatural miracles in their own time reflected concern for their own authority and worries about false prophets. Deuteronomy 13 warns that a false prophet might produce a sign that comes true but must not be followed. Supernatural occurrences were not authoritative in matters of normative practice. During a legal dispute regarding the ritual purity of a certain oven, Rabbi Eliezer proclaimed that his position would be supported by a carob tree, which moved a hundred yards; by a stream, which flowed backward; and, finally, by a Heavenly voice that supported him. Rabbi Joshua argued against him, quoting the Bible, It is not in Heaven, (Deut. 30). Following Rabbi Joshua's challenge, the legal arguments endorsed by the majority prevailed.2"


Matthew
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