Copyrighted Logo

css menu by Css3Menu.com


 

Bruce's 5th book, a Home Study Course, is now available.
Books & Tapes by Bruce Moen
    Bruce's Blog now at http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/blog....

  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print
catholic miracles (Read 19444 times)
jdee190
Full Member
***
Offline


ALK Member

Posts: 131
catholic miracles
Sep 6th, 2011 at 3:37am
 
Do the catholic miracles of Lanciano, Lourdes, Fatima etc not prove that the Catholic Church is right? And also the stigmata of Padre Pio, a Catholic saint and priest shows that Christ was crucified and is live in the Church?

What about Blessed Alexandrina who only ate Communion for over 10 years and stayed alive after Jesus appeared to her?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
DocM
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 2168
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #1 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 7:17am
 
I suppose it depends on what you mean by the term "right."  What if we are spiritual beings, encased in physical bodies?  What if, on our most basic level, thought, combined with pure conviction can change physical reality by changing probabilities in the physical world?

What if there are examples of other healing sites to buddhist shrines, Jewish temples and holy men, etc?  Does this signify that these religions were the only true religions? 

What if the human spirit is capable of these things, and that miracles can occur if one learns to access this faith and conviction?  In the New Testament, Jesus alludes to the ability of the common person to do what he can do, and to achieve almost anything with faith.  (see the passage about faith the size of a mustard seed). 

So I suppose, from my perspective, these healing say more about our spiritual/divine nature than catholicism vs. Judaism vs. Hinduism, etc.  I don't, however,  begrudge catholics from using these healings to fortify their belief. 

Matthew
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
recoverer
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 1:43pm
 
I believe it is better for a person to pay attention to his heart, intuition, higher reasoning and common sense before he pays attention to miracles.

We should never be afraid to try to figure things out for ourselves. I figure a being such as Jesus considers it admirable when he do so.

I don't believe that it is right for the Catholic Church to use these miracles to control what other people believe. Inspiration is fine, but not control.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
betson
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 3445
SE USA
Gender: female
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #3 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 4:00pm
 
Hi

So it seems like we (humanity) need more ways to designate these miracles, than just earning sainthood through one religion.

Does it take three miracles of the human spirit to earn sainthood recognized by the Catholic faith?  So what about an agnostic physician who saves three patients who had 'flatlined'? (Maybe hypothetical.) Or a Viennese Buddhist psychiatrist who saves three souls on the verge of suicide?  (Hypothetical again.)

There are miracles of the human spirit all around us, I suspect  Smiley

Betson
Back to top
 

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
IP Logged
 
Claudio Pisani
Junior Member
**
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 86
Lauria, Italy
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #4 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 4:32pm
 
"The best religion is the religion that brings you closest to God." - Rev. Howard Storm
http://www.near-death.com/storm.html Wink
Back to top
 

Love,Light & Serenity!&&Claudio
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jdee190
Full Member
***
Offline


ALK Member

Posts: 131
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #5 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 1:01pm
 
But what about the Christ stigmata of Padre Pio?

It makes me fear that everyone will go to Hell apart from Christians
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
recoverer
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 2:22pm
 
Jdee:

The is from my book A Night in Heaven. Perhaps you will find it helpful:

Developing an understanding of who Jesus Christ was as a person and who he is today as a spirit has been a process for me. When I was into guru-based teachings I believed Jesus was a guru. When I found out that many gurus are fake, I figured the same was probably true for Jesus. After making contact with my spirit guidance I found that despite what I for the most part believed, I still had thought patterns that made me wonder if certain fundamentalist Christian ideas are true. Is God an angry, wrathful, vengeful and jealous being who eternally punishes people who act in a manner he considers inappropriate? Is it true that Satan gets to people who don’t have the right sort of faith and don’t live their life in the right way? These concerns were quite contrary to my overall way of thinking, yet they still persisted, because I hadn’t examined them enough to come to a definite conclusion.

The main thing that helped me get over the idea that God‘s nature includes the negative traits some people attribute to him, is when I chose to listen to my heart and common sense. My heart told me that whatever divine truth is, it has to feel good. I felt this was true for various reasons. One, my spiritual experiences always felt good with a really nice feeling of peace, and the idea of an angry, wrathful, vengeful and jealous God just didn’t fit in with what I felt. Two, because of what other people have come to know through their spiritual experiences (e.g., near-death experiences). When they meet a being of light, whether this being is God, Christ or another light being, this being always radiates perfect unconditional love in a very noticeable way, with no trace of judgment. The concept of a God who sentences his children to a hellish realm for all eternity because of mistakes they made in a comparatively brief incarnation doesn’t fit in with what people experience when they meet a being of light.

Three, there is also the factor of what love-based common sense says. If a loving parent has a child who goes astray, he (or she) wouldn’t sentence this child to a hellish realm for all eternity because his loving way of being would make it impossible for him to do so. A judgmental vengeance-based approach does nothing except satisfy the mind of someone who tries to feel good about things by seeing another being suffer for all eternity (not true satisfaction). When a vengeful soul reaches the point where it has existed for just one minute and immeasurable fraction of the eternity it is destined to exist for, it will realize that it doesn’t want to spend the rest of eternity with vengeful thoughts. Instead, such a soul will want to become joyful in the knowledge that all souls eventually can find their way back to the love that God and souls who live according to love have to offer. I believe Jesus’ Prodigal Son story supports what I say.

My common sense and heart told me that if I’m wise and loving enough to not want to see any soul suffer in a hell-like realm for all eternity, then certainly God, Christ and other light beings are wise and loving enough to think and feel the same. When it comes right down to it, it was rather insulting of me to think that they don’t understand about love at least as much as I do. Below is Jesus’ Prodigal Son story. (Luke 15:11-32)

"A man had two sons. The younger son told his father, I want to share my estate now before you die. So his father agreed to divide his wealth between his sons.

A few days later this younger son packed all his belongings and moved to a distant land, and there he wasted all his money in wild living. About the time his money ran out, a great famine swept over the land, and he began to starve. He persuaded a local farmer to hire him, and the man sent him into his fields to feed the pigs. The young man became so hungry that even the pods he was feeding the pigs looked good to him. But no one gave him anything.

When he finally came to his senses, he said to himself, at home even the hired servants have food enough to spare, and here I am dying of hunger! I will go home to my father and say, “Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, and I am no longer worthy of being called your son. Please take me on as a hired servant.”

But his father said to the servants, “Quick! Bring the finest robe in the house and put it on him. Get a ring for his finger and sandals for his feet. And kill the calf we have been fattening. We must celebrate with a feast, for this son of mine was dead and has now returned to life. He was lost, but now he is found.” So the party began.

Meanwhile, the older son was in the fields working. When he returned home, he heard music and dancing in the house, and he asked one of the servants what was going on. “Your brother is back,” he was told, “and your father has killed the fattened calf. We are celebrating because of his safe return.”

The older brother was angry and wouldn’t go in. His father came out and begged him, but he replied, “All these years I’ve slaved for you and never once refused to do a single thing you told me to. And in all that time you never gave me even one young goat for a feast with my friends. Yet when this son of yours comes back after squandering your money on prostitutes, you celebrate by killing the fattened calf!”

His father said to him, “Look, dear son, you have always stayed by me, and everything I have is yours. We had to celebrate this happy day. For your brother was dead and has come back to life! He was lost, but now he is found!”

When it comes to a Biblical perspective, people are quite mistaken if they believe it supports the eternal damnation concept. Original versions of the Bible state that souls end up in a hell-like realm for an aeon, not eternity. Aeon means age and is related to its adjective aionios, which means age long, and therefore an indefinite long period. Indefinite isn’t the same as eternal.

In the case of abiding in a lower realm,  it is a matter of how long a spirit clings to its negative ways before it chooses to move towards the light. I’ve had spiritual experiences and received spiritual messages that made the point that once a spirit in a lower realm decides to change its ways and move towards the light, nothing can stop it from doing so. In fact, many loving and wise spirits become overjoyed when a lost soul decides to change its negative ways, and they do whatever they can to help such a soul. There is so much love in heavenly realms; all a person needs to do in order to avail himself of such love is let go of the thought patterns that prevent him from doing so. For example, thought patterns that influence him to commit negative acts, or thought patterns that influence him to have an unforgiving attitude towards people who have made mistakes.





jdee190 wrote on Sep 8th, 2011 at 1:01pm:
But what about the Christ stigmata of Padre Pio?

It makes me fear that everyone will go to Hell apart from Christians

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
betson
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 3445
SE USA
Gender: female
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #7 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 4:16pm
 
Hi,

Here's another interesting view:
/www.unexplainedstuff.com/Religious-Phenomena/Stigmata.html

Betson
Back to top
 

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
IP Logged
 
Beau
Super Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1176
Greenville SC
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #8 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 8:35pm
 
In the book, The Holographic Universe, the author uses a lot of examples of stigmata as he describes how a holographic world would allow for such a thing. It was a good read.
Back to top
 

All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
DocM
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 2168
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #9 - Sep 8th, 2011 at 11:53pm
 
Jdee,

Stigmata are a physical manifestation of faith and belief.  This much is sure.  I have seen accounts of other instances in which faith and belief are accessed with paranormal results.

When a hypnotist accesses the subconscious mind, he is essentially getting us in a relaxed state where whatever is put into the subconscious as a suggestion is put in a place we have the utmost conviction.  Thus, there are accounts of a hypnotist stating that he will trace the person's name with his finger on the person's forearm, and at precisely noon the patient will look down the next day and see his own name written in blood.  Yet it will not be bleeding at the end of the hypnosis session.   Patients have also had spontaneous nosebleeds under hypnosis suggested to the patient as well as uncontrollable coughing, hiccoughs, etc.   

Those examples are instances of combining a suggestion with the pure conviction of the subconscious mind.   This does not mean that the hypnotist has the power over heaven or hell.

From all we can gather on this forum and other sites devoted to the afterlife, hells are created by you, in your own mind because like attracts like.  Our post-mortem state appears to be decided not by some outside jury, but by our own inner nature.  If we live our life according to the golden rule and try to act lovingly, we find others after death who do the same.  Those who go to hellish realms do so willingly (this is the part that is difficult to understand) because they seek others who enjoy whatever they do (personal power, harming others, masochism, etc.). 

As I said in my earlier post, I would not say that any religion should have the right to fortify their faithful with true examples of the paranormal in the real world.  However you take it to a different place when you state that the miracle implies that you must conform to the rituals of that religion or be damned.


Matthew
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jdee190
Full Member
***
Offline


ALK Member

Posts: 131
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #10 - Sep 10th, 2011 at 10:36am
 
What about Mary at Fatima when she showed terrible visions of Hell?

Another lie from the Catholic Church to control people?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jdee190
Full Member
***
Offline


ALK Member

Posts: 131
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #11 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 12:12pm
 
Anyone?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Beau
Super Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1176
Greenville SC
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #12 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 12:29pm
 
Visions of all kinds happen. If it can be conceived of, it can be seen in the "afterlife". If you believe it you will see it because what you see is a part of you. I would put more stock in non religious people who talk of hells, but even then I chalk it up to an expectation.
Back to top
 

All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
recoverer
Super Member
*****
Offline


Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #13 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 1:02pm
 
I've also been shown visions of hell like realms, but I've also had spiritual experiences and received spiritual messages that made the point that spirits can leave such a realm after they decide to change their ways for the better.

There is also the matter of how some people experience such a realm after they die because they have been led to believe in such a realm and due to guilt create one. Retrievers have to help them out.

Have you read Bruce Moen's hounds of hell story (I think that' the name)? A lady who died expected the hounds of hell to get her. Bruce had a difficult time helping her out because when he approached her, due to her fear-based imagination, she experienced him as the hounds of hell and ran away.

I've read and listened to near death experiences where people experienced a hell like realm in various ways. For example, one guy experienced a vast darkness, one guy experienced a large white and completely empty room, one guy experienced himself walking into caves in this Earth and another guy experienced an astral realm where evil beings came after him. In each case, when one of these people asked for help, they received it and left the hell they experienced. No judgmental and unforgiving God greeted them after they asked for help. When it comes to the guy who walked into hell like caves within this Earth, it is hard to believe that he experienced a realm that actually exists.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
jdee190
Full Member
***
Offline


ALK Member

Posts: 131
Re: catholic miracles
Reply #14 - Sep 11th, 2011 at 3:55pm
 
Does the bible not say that only believers of Christ are saved?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print


This is a Peer Moderated Forum. You can report Posting Guideline violations.