hi jdee i know its hard when you are afraid of something like end times but try and stay positive,we can all go through life saying"what if","what if",if it happens one day it will,niether of us can stop it ,only deal with it, if it does happen.

i really dont think there will ever be end times,the earth plain is the learning school for each spirit to evolve,i beleive in 2012 we will reach a state of higher conciousness and the planet will go through a time of renewal,but i dont beleive it will be with massive earthquakes,tidal waves ect....

i think it will be a gentle breeze caressing our hearts ,minds and our very soul,i feel we are all going to experience pure unconditional love and no more feeling of hate violence upon us all,but now i am contridicting myself by saying this,because if that were true what i just said ,then how can the soul learn

i think i just leave it open about 2012,i havent got a clue either,well whatever happens ,what can you do,just go with the flow and drift along with the rest of the  human race.so many are scared of what might be but i pray we will all only find peace serenity and love on our jorneys through life,much love and god's blessings upon you and us all.

love and god bless you  love juditha

I don't know if it's possible to go through life in this world without having some belief.  The key is to find a balance where our beliefs don't get the best of us.

Regarding what Paul said about the church, some sources say that there were mystical Christians during the time of Jesus and people who wanted to control the masses were against such people because they wanted to control people through a church. Therefore, I don't assume that Paul is represented accurately by the Bible nor do I assume that he always got it right. Some of the words attributed to him don't seem to represent higher wisdom.

For example, homosexuality is a sin and women should be submissive to men. It also seems as if he wrote letters to people stating that Jesus would come again during their life and he didn't.

I believe it is very possible that Jesus didn't have it in mind to start a Church. Rather, other people used his name to do so.

Once a person starts looking inside for answers gurus and preachers become unnecessary. Beliefs that come from a guru or preacher can hinder inward seeking.

I believe it is fine for people to share wisdom, but not in a way where people become overly dependent on somebody else.

Beau:

My feeling is that spiritual truth can't be institutionalized. Because a relatively small number of people have tried to institutionalize spiritual truth, millions (perhaps billions) of people follow somebody else's inaccurate and incomplete interpretation of "supposed" spiritual truth.

I guess a soul will continue to follow such a path until it decides to find a better way.


Beau wrote on Jul 21^st, 2011 at 4:07pm:

         Re; whether it is possible to "go through life without some belief".

Consciousness, Discrimination and Distinction.
It is a matter of being conscious of what one is doing, of recognising the difference between one type of cognitive action/function and another, and there are many functions, and they are not distinguished in your understanding of them. You have names for them, but their boundaries are fuzzy and they mix messily together. The truth is not like that; the makeup of the human machine and its mind are not like that; its parts are individual, separate and adjacent, like the bricks that make a wall. Comprehension, apprehension, reason, knowledge, logic, analysis, belief, faith, calculation, concrete & abstract thought, imagination, memory, etc, etc, etc, are all distinct parts with actions and functions, adjacent to each other and stacked, separate but interacting, so as to make a functioning machine.

Spiritual progress is institutionalised.
It always has been. There are many such institutions. There has to be, because people are bound together and progress together. No one gets very far on their own. And mankind's groups are each in different places and levels of progress. (truth is not politically correct) All these institutions have been successful for their adherents - some more so than others of course. There are even institutions behind the scenes that operate upon the astral planes - schools, colleges, that run group progress programs, group courses, individual lessons, and so on. There are wonderful libraries, all sorts of excursions/trips available, even personal mentors and assistants. 

The truth is available
- through many avenues that all emerge behind the scenes and ascend the layers. The truth of Christ and the story of the church; the Islamic story; the Hindu story; the stories of the Pagan Gods; the stories of the races of mankind; and of all our institutions of religious, scientific, philosophical, and educational progress. And truths beyond our little world, well beyond, are all available to us. Learning to leave the body is a great first step. It can be learnt through Christianity, through Masonry, Hinduism, Buddhism, through correct meditation, through nature, music, war, science, art, daily living, family life, etc. But which ever route one takes, the mind and heart and speech and action is to be refined and trained. 

Fuzzy minds
You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most.    

Sharpening the mind:
If you would sharpen up your minds, and overhaul your mechanism; if you would shed your volumes of mental dross that you carry and indulge, and prune your minds down to what is useful; and turn yourself from daudling air head into higher functioning operative mechanisms. Then I challenge you to take up the following exercise to help you reach your goal:

Discuss nothing with others, including with each other, without defining it - define all your significant key terms. Clearly inscribe their boundaries; and their qualities; and contrast them with their adjacent and their opposing counterparts. You may ask others to do the same when they are in conversation with you. But be sure to expect it and ensure it of yourself. If you cannot clearly define your terms as outlined above, then don't use them. 

As this process becomes habitual, as your definitions accumulate and interlock, your mind will sharpen and clarify, and become more organised in its thinking. Your person will re-arrange and organise itself. You will shed volumes of mental waste. Your words and sentences will reflect your improved thought structure and will become more meaningful and impacting. You will be building and organising your temple.   

 

b2,

"Have we strayed from the subject of this thread?"

I guess at the end of the day it's about fear. Seems like as of today norway's in on the war on terror as a bomb went off today near the governmental area. Observational cornucopia from all the reactions. The sad thing about fear seems to be that people willingly will accept less from life as long as the fear is removed, even if that means letting go of freedoms.

Crossbow,

"It always has been. There are many such institutions. There has to be, because people are bound together and progress together. No one gets very far on their own."

Like crabs in a bucket, the ones left behind will do their best to claw one back, ELS 101. The people I've met that have gone their own ways are the most interesting ones in terms of progress. On their own is a misnomer though, as friendships reach way beyond institutions and other earthly "delights". My observation is that death (or death related issues) is the most difficult fear to deal with. Fear of letting go of the safety nets provided by the pats on the back from people who hold the line, a good second place. Going off on a tangent is well worth it though.

"You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most."

That's your perception, mind you. Can you accept this perception of yours or do you feel the need to save people?

Crossbow said: Fuzzy minds
You gentlemen do not reason well. You have air and cotton wool in you heads. Your thoughts are like a swirling, mixing mess of fantasy. Not just you two, but many people, even most.   

Recoverer responds: The more I have freed myself from spirituality that has been institutionalized by others, the less fuzzy my mind has become.

Regarding the astral realms, yes there could be some belief system territories, but there are also beings who realize that numerous spiritual leaders of this World have created inaccurate and incomplete belief systems. Some are more limiting and misleading than others.

Consider the information that Bruce Moen has shared. If one has a follower mentality then one might turn what he has shared into a limiting belief system. If enough people choose to do so, then Bruce would've created a sheeplike institution without meaning to do so.

On the other hand if people read what Bruce wrote with the intention of only accepting what feels right to them and with the spirit of finding out for themselves what's true, they will be okay.

Since Bruce has never said "this is the truth you have to follow" people are less likely to become sheep who follow him.

When it comes to Jesus, I don't believe he was interested in having a bunch of sheep that follow him.  Certainly it is possible for people to share worthwhile information with others without insisting that those others become followers.

I found out about retrievals from Bruce. I do retrievals not because I want to follow Bruce,  but because I want to help out. We are a part of the same team without either of us being the follower of the other. It isn't necessary for either of us to be a follower in order for the job to get done.  Perhaps the love that inspires each of us is what makes it so what needs to get done, gets done.

"...with the spirit of finding out for themselves what's true..."

Then you have your job at hand.