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Message about Paul Rademacher? (Read 15914 times)
heisenberg69
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #15 - Jun 26th, 2011 at 6:22am
 
I’ve dipped in and out of this conversation board for the last couple of years and this good/evil duality thing seems to periodically crop up with people seemingly falling into two camps; evil exists so avoid it and alternatively - that which may be labelled ‘evil’ simply represents a different perspective maybe very alien to our own.

The nature of evil has engaged philosophers for centuries and is a very interesting subject. I think the ‘perspective’ viewpoint has a lot to commend it as history tells us that one group of humans has routinely labelled another as evil; 1980s cold war rhetoric was full of it for example. Throughout history groups such as Jews, Catholics, Protestants, eccentric elderly women (witches) etc. have been routinely labelled as evil and hence persecuted ( indeed ironically sometimes for ‘their own good’ such as when protestants had their souls  ‘cleansed’ by the flames ! ). That is why I find it so hard to buy into the ‘ The Devil’s greatest trick is to convince us he does’nt exist ‘ argument because on the contrary humans have always seen his work everywhere and often persecuted on the basis of it !

From this it might seem that evil is a totally redundant concept but I think that that may be premature. The problem partly is that the word evil (like God) is such a loaded word in that it has so much history - making it emotionally laden.
But I think negativity exists in so far as there are barriers hampering us from going where we want to go. If we accept that growth (personal/spiritual) is the goal then logically some influences are going to promote that and some impede it. In everyday life we see this where a media preoccupied with criminality and negativity presses down on one’s  attempt to see the world as a place of hope and beauty; in this sense the media is ‘evil’ in that it impedes that objective.

Regarding goals, if my goal is to be a professional footballer eating junk food and spending all night in clubs is going to impede  just as a rigorous training programme is going to help me achieve my goal. Also I will get my coaching from a successful ex-pro rather than the Sunday morning hacker ! 

To my way of thinking it all comes down to who we think we are and where we want to go. So when Recoverer advises to be discerning as some influences will hinder you I agree as there are numerous examples of that in everyday life. But I think a key point to understand is that as we change and grow so will that which we decide to be a help/hindrance - hence ‘good’ and ‘evil’ is an evolving, changing concept not an absolute one. We are forever rooted in a perspective which is changing and growing which is where I agree with Beau. Something which we first assign ‘evil’ status may in the future change to ‘good’ status with the benefit of hindsight and a changed perspective.

Dave 
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Beau
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #16 - Jun 26th, 2011 at 7:44am
 
Albert, I think the suffering and the satisfaction is an illusion to create a better learning environment for the soul, or whatever. Without it this planet would be pretty useless to the mentalities that live on it right now. Experience of any kind is a teacher..."Good" and "Bad". It's not a choice between one and the other it is striking a balance of understanding each of them. My two cents.
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #17 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 2:53am
 
   From what i've read and experienced in relation to TMI and Bob Monroe, neither were for the terms "good" or "evil", because of how loaded they are from our cultural conditioning. 

  So, they opted for words, labels, etc like negative and positive or constructive and nonconstructive, etc. 

  I can understand this, and also have this preference myself.  This does not mean that neither understood nor promoted the awareness of limiting forces whether they are internal or external. 

   Recoverer clearly showed that Monroe certainly did have some experience and knowledge of outside limiting forces, and in this case specifically E.T. origin.   Monroe was also told by his "I/there" that he didn't need to fear these at all, basically because he was aware and mature enough to be able to deal with these influences. 

  I would completely agree with Recoverer that one must first become aware of something, in order to be able to deal effectively with it.   

    To state the reality of something, is the not the same as fear mongering unless the one who is listening is apt to be fearful to begin with and wants or needs to take it that way.   Often what's happening with those that don't like or have a reaction to hearing such things, is because there IS already fear deep within (often more unconscious than not) of directly becoming aware of such influences.  Fear of the unknown, fear of potential loss of control, fear of influence, etc.  Perhaps even the fear of the awareness that they are already being influenced to some degree.

  In any case, to me, it's all a lot more simple than what a lot of people are saying here. 

  Like attracts and begets like, and part of what that means to me is that the closer you resonate to and with PUL Consciousness, the less you will be influenced by limiting forces be they E.T., fellow humans, or what not. 

  However, because all is connected, we do influence one another to varying degrees.  That is also important to recognize, and it's important to recognize that some influence towards limitation or "non constructivness" and others influences towards freeing and greater awareness.  With most humans, we fluctuate moment by moment to some degree in our "output" of what quality of influence we are sending out.

   But again, there is a solution, and that is attunement to PUL.  If one looks closely at the example of PUL personification in the Earth in a physical human, you will see a person who occasionally "warned" others of limiting influences (or of challenging times to come), but he always stressed the solution--PUL. 

  He did this both by preaching (or proselytising if you prefer Wink , and mostly by pure example in his day to day, moment to moment interactions. 

  Monroe though a spiritually mature and somewhat unusually aware man, well he did not hold a candle to the above man as far as attunement to PUL is concerned.   He was not PUL incarnate, and therefore had limited perceptions, understanding, beliefs, etc.  As Monroe's "Ultimate Journey" friends referred to him, he was not yet "complete" and was still "small". 

  Therefore, i do not automatically believe everything that Monroe taught and exampled, though i respect him greatly in many ways and in many areas.

  However, i do completely trust those who emanate what i perceive as the pure White Light, for they are PUL incarnate and have expanded their perception to include all awareness of their Oneness. 

  These, not surprisingly, teach me differently than what some members of this forum do.  They have helped me to become aware of limiting influences, and sometimes i feel nudged to speak about these awareness's.

  I did not have much interest in limiting influences to begin with, and at one point, though somewhat briefly, i held pretty "nondualistic" beliefs and perceptions, and thought it was limiting to think or perceive in terms of constructive and non constructive, because after all isn't it all One.  I spent a bit of time in this over right brain, nice haze, before i re-balanced myself.

  Well, if Monroe taught me anything, it was to equally value the right AND left brain hemispheres and their different values, perceptions, etc.  More so, taught that the balance and merging of these was what is most helpful. 

If one comes from a predominantly "right brain hemisphere" perspective, then one might say, "It's all One, there is no positive and negative".

   The left brain says hey wait a moment, yes there is relatively less or more positive and negative, and it's important to recognise the difference, and choose to attune to the positive.

  The left brain merged with the right brain or vice versa says a combined story, "let's focus on Oneness and the means to same, PUL, while recognising that there is constructive and non constructive and choose constructively in order to grow and mature in PUL, which IS constructivism in action.    Once we do this enough, then do we become truly and fully aware of the Oneness and the illusions fall away..." 

  So again, i'm not advocating fear, and don't, but simply awareness.  Awareness of an issue can help one to deal with it more effectively.  It's up to YOU reader to either apply relative PUL or relative fear to the awareness. 

  p.s., i believe it's quite possible that the message i received about Rademacher relates to something Recoverer said, maybe Rademacher is relatively naive to the fact that there are non constructive influences involved with TMI to some extent.   More specifically of E.T. origin, but i'm also open to corrupt U.S. government type influence as well or perhaps "shadow government" would be a more apt term since it's more global in it's implications.



   

   



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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #18 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 3:08am
 
Beau wrote on Jun 26th, 2011 at 7:44am:
Albert, I think the suffering and the satisfaction is an illusion to create a better learning environment for the soul, or whatever. Without it this planet would be pretty useless to the mentalities that live on it right now. Experience of any kind is a teacher..."Good" and "Bad". It's not a choice between one and the other it is striking a balance of understanding each of them. My two cents.


  What about stuckness and retrieval?  If it's all the same or equal and just a learning experience, why even bother with the retrieval process to begin with?

  What's the point, after all we all are just "learning", and no experience etc. is better or worse than another, right?

   Should we then just stuff suffering under the rug?  Maybe it doesn't really exist? 

  Have you ever asked yourself why we needed this kind of school of intense polarity and contrast to begin with, and what exactly is the point?

  Maybe the driving point of such a learning environment is to learn both the difference and the necessity of choosing to be and live constructively?   

Maybe PUL is constructiveness in action?   

Well a big part of PUL is compassion and a big part of compassion is wanting to help alleviate suffering, because in a very real sense, if one is truly mature and aware, one knows that when others suffer, self is still suffering and cannot be completely content or satisfied until all Consciousnesses are happy.

   
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Beau
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #19 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 6:13am
 
Hi Justin,

I do find Constructive/Deconstructive a better way to describe and maybe it is the same thing as good and bad but I don't think so. I don't think Deconstructive is Destructive. I think they Con and Decon are both necessary to move forward. If I "Stuff suffering under a rug" it can still be a constructive experience ultimately because from that I will learn a lesson. I have empathy and sometimes even sympathy for the plight of others and I try to do what my Higher Self asks or goads me into doing at a given time, but if I ignore that and follow my ego instead I am still learning a lesson that will make me stronger in the long run.
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #20 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 8:32pm
 
Beau wrote on Jun 27th, 2011 at 6:13am:
Hi Justin,

I do find Constructive/Deconstructive a better way to describe and maybe it is the same thing as good and bad but I don't think so. I don't think Deconstructive is Destructive. I think they Con and Decon are both necessary to move forward. If I "Stuff suffering under a rug" it can still be a constructive experience ultimately because from that I will learn a lesson. I have empathy and sometimes even sympathy for the plight of others and I try to do what my Higher Self asks or goads me into doing at a given time, but if I ignore that and follow my ego instead I am still learning a lesson that will make me stronger in the long run.


     I might put it a bit differently.  We may all end up in the same state eventually but i disagree with the "stronger" part.  I think one may just be delaying one's original "job" and destiny (birth right) of being a full Co-Creator with Source. 

   To me, there isn't much point and benefit in delaying this process.  Maybe there is something to be gained by getting temporarily stuck and distracted, to learn of polarity etc, but really one doesn't need that much experience in stuckness to realize how pleasurable choosing Sourceness is..  Really, one physical lifetime as a human in a collectively stuck cycle can teach one about polarity and contrast enough.

  Because the catch 22 is, and this is one of the reasons why "Freewill" is a bit of a misnomer, is that when we choose non constructively, we suffer and contribute to the suffering of the whole. 

  When we choose constructively, we eventually become more joyous and at peace.  We begin to experience true "health" which is a radiant state of being.

  Maybe i'm a simpleton, and assume too much about others, but why would i not want to be happy and at peace, why wouldn't anyone not want to be happy and at peace, surely it is preferable to being miserable and often dissatisfied?   So many people i meet just feel so unhappy and run down, and it makes me feel sad when i feel that.

   So while i agree that it's fine to make mistakes, and eventually we all or most find that state of happiness we all search for, i just don't see much benefit in keeping stuck and learning the hard way, because after awhile making mistakes and choosing the limited way just becomes really inane or tiresome.  We only need to choose non constructively enough to realize what it gets us--unhappiness.

  Maybe those vaunted "graduates" and near graduates are just those who just get sick of the distractions and inanity  (or insanity) of being stuck in an endless loop, and realize that they can step off the hamster wheel and choose a much more fulfilling way, and then make a habit of that (choosing (constructively)?

  Maybe it has a lot to do with shifting one's priorities and realizing that we don't have to be unhappy, dissatisfied, miserable, etc?
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #21 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 8:42pm
 
I call it entertainment. I believe it is a valid reason for being here. Evolution comes in many packages, not just the holy ones. And Justin, I'm not talking about learning the hard way. I'm talking about how one actually learns. One being me of course. I can't speak for anyone else.
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heisenberg69
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #22 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 8:22am
 
Beau-

one man who would agree with you that all experiences are valuable would be the psychiatrist Victor Frankl. His book, 'Man's Search for Meaning" is the most inspirational I have ever read. In it he describes his experiences as an Austrian Jew at Theresienstadt and Auschwitz concentration camps where nearly his whole family were murdered by the Nazis. I cannot imagine any cicumstances worse than this but he managed to find meaning in his suffering; indeed he went on to base his 'logotherapy' on the result of his experiences.

From his book:

"... We stumbled on in the darkness, over big stones and through large puddles, along the one road leading from the camp. The accompanying guards kept shouting at us and driving us with the butts of their rifles. Anyone with very sore feet supported himself on his neighbor's arm. Hardly a word was spoken; the icy wind did not encourage talk. Hiding his mouth behind his upturned collar, the man marching next to me whispered suddenly: "If our wives could see us now! I do hope they are better off in their camps and don't know what is happening to us."
That brought thoughts of my own wife to mind. And as we stumbled on for miles, slipping on icy spots, supporting each other time and again, dragging one another up and onward, nothing was said, but we both knew: each of us was thinking of his wife. Occasionally I looked at the sky, where the stars were fading and the pink light of the morning was beginning to spread behind a dark bank of clouds. But my mind clung to my wife's image, imagining it with an uncanny acuteness. I heard her answering me, saw her smile, her frank and encouraging look. Real or not, her look was then more luminous than the sun which was beginning to rise.

A thought transfixed me: for the first time in my life I saw the truth as it is set into song by so many poets, proclaimed as the final wisdom by so many thinkers. The truth -- that love is the ultimate and the highest goal to which man can aspire. Then I grasped the meaning of the greatest secret that human poetry and human thought and belief have to impart: The salvation of man is through love and in love. I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved. In a position of utter desolation, when man cannot express himself in positive action, when his only achievement may consist in enduring his sufferings in the right way—an honorable way—in such a position man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment. For the first time in my life I was able to understand the meaning of the words, "The angels are lost in perpetual contemplation of an infinite glory...."
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #23 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 9:08am
 
Thank you Dave, for reminding me of Frankl. I have been meaning to read him and now I will for sure. Onward and upward! or downward it that's your thing, you know.  Cheesy
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #24 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 1:01pm
 
My feeling is that there is no way a person (or spirit) would choose a negative way of being over a loving way of being if he knew the difference.

I couldn't stand being a person (or being) who for self-serving reasons hurts others.

My feeling is that in order for the creative process to have the freedom it needs in order to work, the possibility of unwanted consequences had to be allowed. Sometimes such consequences are not wanted at all, even if eventually somewhere "long" down the road things work out.

Consider what Bruce Moen said about souls who jump around from one lower realm to another. He wrote that when a soul is in realm where it can be helped but for some reason it back tracks and ends up in a lower realm again, the light beings who tried to help it cry.

Bruce also wrote that some souls get so locked up in their inability to open up to PUL that they can't find their way back to the light.

Going by the spirit work I do, there are spirits who need help. Some need a lot of help. It isn't a matter of disrespecting their free will. It is a matter of realizing that the creative process can go so astray at times that some souls require help.

If Bruce is right and some souls lose their existence, this is no small thing. It is absolutely horrid! If a being with malicious intent makes it so some souls lose their existence or get stuck for a very long time, then perhaps the word "evil" applies to such a being even if it is inately divine. I figure such a being also needs help.

I believe this is an area where some channeled sources mislead people. They get people to minimalize how serious things can be. Just because something sounds hip, this doesn't mean that it is true.
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #25 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 1:33pm
 
Albert,

You are mistaken is assuming that I am talking about a negative experience. I am saying that ANY experience is ultimately positive. I know you don't agree.
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #26 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 6:28pm
 
Beau wrote on Jun 28th, 2011 at 1:33pm:
Albert,

You are mistaken is assuming that I am talking about a negative experience. I am saying that ANY experience is ultimately positive. I know you don't agree.


  Maybe the above is generally true, but not absolutely true?

  Recoverer earlier wrote about some of Bruce's experiences and i will quote these again. 

Quote:
Consider what Bruce Moen said about souls who jump around from one lower realm to another. He wrote that when a soul is in realm where it can be helped but for some reason it back tracks and ends up in a lower realm again, the light beings who tried to help it cry.

If Bruce is right and some souls lose their existence, this is no small thing. It is absolutely horrid!


If the above is true, i fail to see the "ultimately positive" part of such developments. 

  I'm generally not comfortable with absolutes and absolute statements.  Perhaps the only absolute i am aware of is PUL.  Most everything else seems relative to some degree or another.  But i would say that generally most experiences work out for the ultimately positive.


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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #27 - Jun 28th, 2011 at 6:44pm
 
That's pretty much what I am saying, Justin yes. Who am I to judge another's experience as negative to them. It is relative. Those folks who may get obliterated may in fact be entities that aren't moving in any direction. A bump on a log...but I'm not so sure I buy that one anyway. Its reassuring perhaps to someone who feels that all spiritual evolving is relative to what they feel is right, but not really very practical in within the idea that the energy cannot be destroyed. Erased or Scrubbed...perhaps. Tom Campbell talks about that, but like I say I think I'll withhold my judgement until its my turn to be obliterated.
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heisenberg69
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #28 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 3:26am
 
I must admit I found that concept to be the most troubling/puzzling of all Bruce's writings, and to me at least it did'nt 'feel' right because I did'nt understand how a concept outside of time (soul) could be 'time limited'. Netherless the strength of Bruce's approach is that he never asks us to take his word for anything and this idea is no different.

However, I would say that anyone concerned enough about their spiritual evolution to be on this site falls outside the category of 'hopeless cases' !
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Re: Message about Paul Rademacher?
Reply #29 - Jun 29th, 2011 at 5:52am
 
heisenberg69 wrote on Jun 29th, 2011 at 3:26am:
... I found that concept to be the most troubling/puzzling of all Bruce's writings, and to me at least it did'nt 'feel' right because I did'nt understand how a concept outside of time (soul) could be 'time limited'.

Which page numbers is this on? Or could you explain what you mean, as I don't understand you.
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