I originally thought about putting this thread in the "Off topic section", but considering that the E.T. phenomena plays an important part in Bruce's latter books, i figured it could belong here. 

  My intention and hope for this thread is that it evolves into a open minded and hearted discussion about this topic in a very holistic way.  I want to cover many issues myself in communicating about this topic. 

Here are some subjects I would like to go over:  E.T. involvement with the Consciousness and Earth changes taking place in the Earth now and in the future, spiritually oriented E.T. groups, the influence and awareness of Government--particularly of the U.S. in the suppression, misdirection, and deception regarding this phenomena, our own experiences with or intuitions of different E.T. groups, and the question of--is there a group or groups of E.T.'s which seek to keep us limited and cut off from our power source. 

  Let's get real broad here!

  Clearly, it's primarily the materialistic, Western mind which is most skeptical and non accepting of this phenomena.  For we find in other cultures and societies, both past and present, a more open minded and accepting attitude to the reality of other Beings from other worlds and/or dimensions and the awareness that they have and are interacting with us now.

For example, Dr. John Mack talks about his communication with the Dali Lama about this issue and that the Dali Lama indicated that not only was he aware of such Beings, but specifically said that he was aware that they are quite upset with us because of the way we are treating the Earth we live in and that's part of the reason of their involvement with us now. 
Dr. Mack mentioned that this perspective was corroborated by his own clinical work with patients who either had been abducted or who had other contacts with E.T. beings before he talked to the Dali Lama. Particularly many of the contacts and experiences involving the "Grays" revolved around them communicating the extreme importance and necessity of humans needing to respect and care for the Earth and life around us, that we are destroying our beautiful physical home and that it was negatively affecting other levels of existence, and other Beings. 

  Dr. Mack also mentions that in talking with various Native American individuals and groups, that he was surprised when they told him things like, "we know about these Beings and have for awhile." 

  So it seems when you compare the Western, materialistic mind set and paradigms to a larger world view, we are the ones in the "minority" in not being open to such realities. 

Those of us with nonphysical experiences and beliefs, know well that this is also the case in this area too.  That other cultures tend to be more accepting of nonphysical realities and experiences.

The problem with researching and talking about this area is multi-fold.  One is that it so vast and broad of a topic.  For example, the question of, just how many different E.T. groups are there in just this Universe and how many are interacting with us in some way now? 

  Two: there is so much contradictory info out there, even when talking about the same subject.  For example, the topic of the Grays in particular is very contradictory.  There are many people and sources which say that these are not positively intentioned towards humans.  Many cite the abduction experience and that the abductees tend to be terrified and consciously don't want or like the experience.

  Some say they do have positive intentions towards us, but so lack the experience of emotions and the emotional/feeling appreciation of love, that they truly do seem "alien" and/or negative to us.  In other words, they don't fully understand the emotionally terrifying nature of them abducting us.

  Some say that they are quite positive in their intentions to us, and are working with us with the permission of a collective of Light Beings from many worlds who are more spiritually aware than either of us.  One such source says that the humans who are abducted, volunteered and agreed to this before they entered into physical life, but because of the nature of physical existence when the time comes, of course their conscious minds have forgotten the pre agreed contract, and so they experience a lot of fear and upsetness in their conscious minds yet at the same time, from a higher self perspective they are happy and joyful in the knowledge that they are being of helpful service to these Beings.  (apparently they need our help to some extent, as they are trying to help us in other ways).

  There is even some contraction regarding the group known as the "Reptilians".  Many sources say that they are definitely negative in their intentions to us and have the purpose and plan to limit us in various ways, to manipulate and use us (and/or the Earth) in various ways, etc.   That they are very "conqueror" and aggressive minded.  One source says that they are being held in check in attacking in an overt, physical way currently by groups more powerful and aware than they are.

Yet, some individuals here and there report seemingly positive experiences with Reptilians. 

  This brings up some questions.  Are there different Reptilian groups from different "places" interacting with humans?   Were at some point the Reptilians less negative?  Are Reptilians like humans in that within a whole of a race there are different factions, groups, and individuals who have different intents, motivations, and spiritual awareness levels?   

   Were the minority of people who had positive experiences with Reptilian beings being deceived?  Are they in league with them and trying to deceive their fellow humans or rather a natural Like attracts, begets, and likes Like phenomenon happening?  Or perhaps were they once Reptilian themselves at a time wherein this group was more positive and remember this and identify with this group based on past experiences rather than present realities? 


   How can we know with any certainty the truth of any of these matters wherein so little physical evidence and knowledge is provided?

   I believe there is a way to find out the truth of these or any matter, if the student is ready.  I believe a combo of meditation and prayer, wherein one brings up and focuses on the feeling of love and gratitude, specifically asks for the help, guidance, and protection of only the most PUUL attuned and spiritually aware consciousnesses, and then asks a question with no preconception and learns the fine art of simply listening for an answer, and then interpreting that answer. 

  My experience is that we won't always get answers right away to the questions we ask.  There can be various reasons why.  Here are just some.  One, we're not ready to know something yet.  Two we could figure it out on our own via a combo of life experience, deductive reasoning, looking at sources we feel and intuit are more credible.  3.  Maybe we just aren't attuned enough in that particular meditation and so aren't clear enough to more clearly perceive an answer at that particular time.  This is particularly so when we are asking such ultimate questions which have answers and the level they come from, which are so fast vibratory/expanded in nature.   The better receptors or channels we become, e.g., the more fast vibratory we become ourselves, the more likely we will get and more easily perceive such information that is innately expanded/fast vibratory in nature.
 
   Sometimes the answers aren't obvious, and takes a little while to figure out, or takes a synchronicity to support, or what not.   Sometimes we have a dream later, which is an answer, or meet someone who addresses the issue we are interested in.

  But there is no harm in asking the questions to begin with, and being open to receiving whatever.  If we truly have the intention and desire to be led to the truth, then we will be, and that old saying of "Ask and ye shall receive..." is so true on so many levels.  Sometimes we have to keep asking though. 

Here's the terra papers by robert morning sky.

The history of earth, allegedly, from an alien to earth perspective.

http://tiny.cc/casrz

I figure that if one wants to find out  what the Greys are about, one needs to consider what both supporters and non-supporters say, regardless of temperment. Considering what Karla went through her negative attitude isn't surprising.

Barbara Bartholic, who worked closely with Karla Turner said that a number of abductees told her that they had a non-physical experience where they met Barbara as a positive being, and this being directed them to her for assistance. When they met her in person they found that she looked the same. The same is true for Jacques Valle, a man who worked with Barbara. One abductee drew pictures that accurately showed how Barbara (and I think Jacques) looked.

Below is from the attached interview.

"Message: (From Joanne) She’s murdered. (Karla’s message) The malfunction of your clock is the signal to you .that I am present. Must present facts. Must keep up work. Don’t stop because of fear. Fear is their power. Not finished fighting. Will help from other side. There are good forces there. If you do not speak out, you are all accomplices. Death is not an end. I will watch over you. You are a witness to a crime. I love you."

http://www.whale.to/b/bartholic.html

Quote:


  Isn't Barbara's and Kara's information also largely based on hypnosis? 

  Both groups also mention conscious remembrances and experiences as well. 

  To me, surface conscious remembrances can be more problematical than info and memories attained under hypnosis.  Reason being is that there is often more interpreter overlay and skewing with the former.  Often the deeper one goes in relaxation of the conscious mind, the more purely the information can come to the fore. 

Hypnosis is just a word & concept for a more deeply relaxed state of being in relation to the conscious mind. 

  The only main problem with hypnosis is the issue of "leading a subject", and yet many hynpotherapists have reported time and time again that the subconscious mind isn't fully passive and that when they have asked certain questions or what not, the patients went somewhere else with the info, rather than telling the therapist what they were asking about.   

  This tells me that the Soul consciousness or level of a person is often more active during these sessions than is often recognized.  One might say that the subconscious level of the mind and the concept of the Soul is very linked and connected. 

   But yes, i am aware that leading can be an issue.  But be very aware that people who often cry "leading" are often people who don't have beliefs in the reality of the Soul in the eternal, consciousness sense or the influence of the Higher self.  If the Higher self and Guidance level of a person does or doesn't want certain info to come through, it certainly is capable of directing it one way or the other.  This part of us is much more powerful than any "E.T." and their influence on us. 

  More specifically with E.T. contacts and abductions in relation to hypnosis, there is the issue of the manipulation of perception and memory on part of the E.T. to the human. 

  I do believe this is quite possible and does happen.   Yet, what would be more reliable in such a case, info remembered consciously from the get go, or information gleaned from deeper hypnosis wherein a patient is specifically given a suggestion to look past all illusion, false memory, manipulation or what not, and get to the real source and real memory of an event?

  One can "invoke" the Higher self level of a person more easily in the case of hypnosis and have clearer communication with same in those relaxed states which are much more akin to meditation than our everyday "normal" waking state. 

Now, i don't know enough about Dr. Mack's methods, or Barbara's or Karlas, or in comparison, to say anything one way or another. 

Yet i note that Dr. Mack had a long time interest in spiritual issues and practices before getting involved in these E.T. issues and regressions, and probably was aware of the concept of the Higher self level of humans, and it's not unreasonable to assume that he may have incorporated such methods and suggestions with his regressive, hypnotic work.

  Karla on the other hand, never once mentioned in her lecture the importance of love, meditation, prayer, the Higher self, etc. at all.   In fact, she said that the only effective way to fight these E.T.'s was to show, or direct towards them anger. 

  Anger is often, not always though, quite related to fear, particularly in a sense when someone feels threatened.  Obviously this pertains quite a lot to E.T. experiences for a lot of people. 

  If Karla had mentioned anything about the importance of feeling love towards any of these abducting or contacting Beings, i would be more open to her interpretations of OTHERS experiences.  Yet, is it really her job to interpret these and tell us that when a person is experiencing a positive experience it's most likely a false memory, screen, or manipulation of some kind?

  One thing i respect about Dr. Mack's work is that he doesn't tend to interpret his patients experience for us.  He more so reports it and let's us decide what to believe more so.  The interpretations or conclusions he does state, tend to be the kind of general ones wherein many different people report a very similar experience.  He might say something like, "many of my patients later report that they had similar, positive spiritual experiences involving a certain group."   

  He doesn't say this means it is definitely positive, or it's just the E.T.'s manipulating perceptions.  Karla often implies and insinuates the latter as it is obviously her own belief and perspective.

btw, here is a link to the lecture with K.T. that i have been talking about.  It's broken up into 4 parts.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/227534-Karla-Turner-UFO-MIlitary-Abductions-19...

This morning while meditating I asked for information about the Greys. I'm hesitant to share what I received because I'm not certain what it means.

Nevertheless, while wide awake I was shown some scenery in a way where it seemed as if I was floating through the places I saw. Even though the imagery was clear, my perception wasn't real clear. Therefore, it was hard to make things out. Also, I had to put in effort in order to make certain that I didn't lose contact with what I was experiencing (staying phased in was difficult).

First I saw beings standing on hillsides. I'm unclear on this, but seems as if they were being grown like plants. They looked more human than Greylike, but they weren't completely human. They were definitely  taller than the Greys.

Next I was shown cities with architecture that is different than human cities. The architecture seemed futuristic.

As I saw the above the thought occurred to me that this is how things would look in this world if the Greys took over. It is possible that my own worrisome thoughts caused me to think this way and got in the way of my understanding what was being communicated to me.

Perhaps the beings I saw were hybrids. They didn't seem human.

A while ago I asked about the Greys and was shown a Grey that looked quite odd. This didn't seem like a positive message.

Do you remember what I said about unfriendly aliens contacting me a couple of months ago? They looked more Grey-like than Reptilian-like. They were white and had simple faces. Perhaps I saw a breed of Greys that is different than the Greys people make images of. Whatever the case, even though they didn't feel evil in a monstrous way, they felt quite cold. It didn't seem as if love is one of the elements they use when making decisions. They might need help, but where would their trustworthiness come from if they don't rely on love at all? This is an actual question, not just a point in the form of a question.

recoverer wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 2:54pm:


  Albert, i will put the above in holistic context. 

First note the highlighted portion of your above quote. 

  This session was done in 1994, and what was seen for the future, had not happened yet. 

Is it possible that Brown was seeing a possibility that involved the worst case scenario with the coming Earth changes? 

  Here are some things to think about.  Remember Bruce's work and info.  In one of his earlier Monroe Institute programs, he and some of his partners saw horrendous and extremely destructive, extremely severe developments occurring. 

This i believe was before 98'.  Yet later on, when they check up on Earth changes, Helpers tell them that now at this point in time, the Changes would not be so severe and it was partially the result of the efforts of people like Bruce to help raise the consciousness of humanity. 

  So, why isn't it possible that Brown just tapped into a possible or probable future reality that at 94 could have been possible or probable, but isn't anymore and hasn't been for awhile?

  After all, Bruce was told that things had changed and would be much less severe. 

  Another source, the Edgar Cayce readings mention on a few occasions a specific time line as important to look at.  This was the 40 year testing period for humanity from 1958 to 1998. 

Implied was that how humanity developed and chose collectively during that 40 year testing period, would have much impact and determination on what would happen to humanity during the changes that were said to come after 98. 

   When dealing with fluidic things as time and the future, you can't just write someone off in such a black and white manner and with using no subtly of thought that takes into account relative and variable factors. 

   Like you and others, i've also received messages that we will stay on Earth for awhile, and will develop a better civilization out of the ashes of the old. 

   But i don't see how that "debunks" information relating to the future that Brown saw in 94.  Maybe it was a real possibility then.  Maybe the Greys or some other E.T.'s would have had to bring us to some other place to continue our evolution.

Imagine what would have happened if an all out nuclear war had happened during a WWIII scenario at some point?  Almost total destruction, and it would be very, very, very hard for human life to survive, let alone prosper after such a development.

  In his later book, Brown receives DIFFERENT information about the future. 

recoverer wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 3:20pm:


   Remember Bruce's accounts with the 2nd Gathering Group? 

Remember he said that they understood love from a mental, intellectual perspective, but didn't yet have the experience or knowingness of the importance of love in a feeling way?

  I believe similar applies to the Greys.  Perhaps they are aware of the connectedness of all things, and care about that, but they haven't felt the feel good emotional like feelings that we humans can more easily feel and experience. 

   This would make them seem "cold" to us, as i said earlier, but that doesn't mean they aren't to be trusted. 

One can be ethical in ones ideals, without knowing the totality of love.  For example, the Greys through mental observation of looking at themselves and other groups could come to the awareness of the importance of love at least on a mental level by understanding the physics that everything is completely connected and that if one does negatively to another, it negatively affects self, and if one does positively to others it affects self positively. 

Or looking at the cause and effect of ones and others actions over a broader time and scale.

One can know and experience facets of love, without experiencing the totality of love. 

Right now, you and i are aware of love, but are we experiencing the totality of love?  No, of course not, if we were, we would be like Yeshua.

  Obviously the feeling part and experience of love is very important.  Brown seem to pick up the information that they deep down want and recognize the need for help in this area and that humans in particular could help them.  They originally didn't approach us in that way because of a sense of superiority, but eventually realized they needed our help on various levels. 

They need help genetically and from interaction with such emotional beings like humans.  We can help polarize our extremes into balance. 

  I've considered many viewpoints, and i use my intuition to go with the ones that make the most sense.

  Basically, the Greys are strange to us because they are very non human like. 

  This doesn't make them beyond trust.  I do not trust the Reptilian group whatsoever, and ironically they are more similar to us in the sense of being more emotional Beings. 

I sense and feel intense feelings of negativity, superiority, selfishness, and unconcern with the connectedness of all consciousness.

This is very different what i sense with the Greys.  The Greys do feel cold and very non human like, but i don't sense malevolence like i do with the Reptilian group. 

 

I must add that even though I have received information about unfriendly aliens being involved with this world and possible future threats, I have yet to receive information that made the point that what Greys might be doing with cloning etc serves a positive purpose that benefits mankind.

I did go through a period of time when I considered the positive possibilies including the part about people agreeing to be abducted before they incarnated, but as I said above, no confirmations.

On the other hand I have received two messages that made the point that abductions have been done by unfriendly aliens. One said most. If what I received represents the truth, then it is hard to see how numerous Grey related abductions that serve a positive purpose fit in.

There are also people who have said that they've seen Greys and Reptilians working together. Some sources say that Greys are worker bees for the Reptilians. I don't want to dismiss what they say simply because they aren't as positive as John Mack.  Something doesn't become true simply because positive people support it. Consider ACIM.