Hi All: I ran across this piece of information about David Hawkins.

Hawkins’ background is that of a trained psychologist. He ran one of the largest practices in all of Manhattan for many years before retreating to ten years of meditation and spiritual work.

There must be someone on this board who lives in New York City. This should be easy to look up in the public record. If someone is interested please check this out.

S.

Seraphis:

If you have the right to expose people to David Hawkins, do other people have the right to say that they don't believe that he is the real deal?

Can they say that they don't believe that he rejected Lucifer's offer that would've enabled him to control worlds? Can they say that they believe that such a story is probably something a dishonest story teller would come up with?

Can they say that they don't believe in his enlightenment grading system?

Can they say that they don't believe he is 97% enlightened, just under Jesus?

Can they say that a person who is as enlightened as Hawkins claims, would be able to understand what ACIM is about?

Can they say that it is possibe for a person to say a lot of things that sound clever without being enlightened? Can they say that they know this is so because they are aware of bonified frauds who have done the same?

Can they say that they know of a number of people who have claimed to have overcome their ego, yet such people are some of the most self serving and egotistical people they know?

By the way, one of things cult leaders (and other mind controllers) do is get people to believe absurd things. The more they are able to do so, the less the people they control have the ability to think for themselves. It's a very common tactic that has been used with a lot of success.

Hawkins measurement business is absurd.

Recoverer you clearly don't understand the scale. The scale itself is based on what Hawkins developed using kineisiology and it is a very complex and subtle system that has a lot of problems... (and you won't be able to discredit it without a lot of 'honest' effort which would require many thousands of dollars) but as a rule of thumb index it has some function, because it can give a student a thumbnail benchmark of mind states and if you conflate it with the Chakral system you can do a rough corrolation between the two systems which can be useful to a dedicated effective student and practicianer of Yoga and spiritual evolution.

What you do is knee jerk rejection on not fact and painstaking investigation but on some weird feeling you have about kineisology... just as you got the ACIM 'ego' information all wrong it looks like you got the kineisology scale all wrong as well..


S.

recoverer wrote on Apr 20^th, 2011 at 5:27pm:

Seraphis said: "Pauli effect proved you were blowing smoke screens without substance just your proof of what Jesus told you."

Recoverer responds: "I can't say I agree.

Lucy wrote on Apr 21^st, 2011 at 3:40am:


Hi Lucy: Remember Wiki deleted Bruce Moen's artcle... they seem to want to keep spiritual stuff off the site especially contemporary potentially controversial material.

S.

I found the mirror link at a third site (on Hawkins) which I have now "lost" but it sort of regurgitated the mirror site.

Hawkins is so bright I wouldn't be surprised if he got himself in a bind on certain issues, but then I don't know what he experienced. There always seems to be some disconnect with self-realization and the intellect.

Only saw the movie, but the guy in "A Beautiful Mind" lives something extraordinary. If we do choose our lives, I do wonder what his take-home prize is, what he gains from the struggle. I think these stories are connected because you have two powerful intellects here.

Also Robert Pirsig...

Someone with a powerful intellect might interpret the experiences a little differently.

But that's the problem. The intellect can't wrap itself around this question (of existence) completely. It can't be interpreted, it can only be experienced. The intellect always seems to be a subset of the whole, something it doesn't like. Maybe that's what a real ego trip is, not being able to acknowledge that the part, no matter how brilliant or clever or profound, is not the whole.

Though I imagine one could at least point out the path to how one got there (to experience the whole). Does Hawkins book do that?

Lucy wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 2:16am:


Hi Lucy: I posted this in another thread but understanding the transcendence phenomena is so important I am posting again with further clarification:

What is Transcendence? Transcendence is simply the state in which one becomes one with the Manifest/Unmanifest…i.e… Yoga… union with God.

The reason this state is so unknown lies in the fact that statistically only 1 in 10,000,000 human beings achieve the state. When the state is achieved it is so profound the tendency is to withdraw from the world, so no footprint is left behind.   

The current population of the planet is +/- 6,812,200,000 which means that at this instant there are 6812 Transcended beings living on the planet. The state generally leaves a being disconnected from ‘objective reality’ and there is nothing to say or communicate. So that only 50% of them remain in contact with physical reality (their bodies). Of the remaining 3406 close to 75% of them are unable to communicate believably and coherently some actually fall from grace…

The current state of American mysticism/theology is wanting in this area since we have no tradition of recognizing ‘Transcendence’ are a good grasp of what it really is… are to even respect it as a very high state of consciousness… and the reason there is a disconnect between the intellect and ‘self-realization’ is that ‘self-realization’ is beyond intellect… Robert Monroe understood the disconnect when he began to get the idea that there is a ‘non-verbal’ communication modality beyond focus 21 and above… Bruce Moen captured it is his Cosmograph… Curiosities Father… intellect crashes and burns when confronted with the idea that something just ‘is’…

S.

Lucy wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 2:16am:


Hi Lucy: John Nash (A Beautiful Mind) is a perfect example of what Robert Bruce warns against… developing the high chakral centers without a thorough grounding in the lower ones… of course he had no way of knowing this… when you do a Monroe seminar on Thursday they do a period of silence and communion with the earth… going around hugging trees and touch natural things…

S.

Seraphis1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 11:40am:


An interesting sidebar is that America with a population of +/-300,000,000 if that statistic holds up we should have at least 30 living transcendent beings in our midsts...

I know that Ralph Waldo Emerson was one of them and I think Helen Keller made the cut... but they are deceased.

Oddly enough Bruce Moen went through the aperture...he did it with the help of Monroe... can he do it at will I wonder....???!!!

S.

Quote:


How could anyone know the facts about this?

We don't have measurable criteria for "self-realized".

You'd have to have a meta-system for measuring....

Hi All: I have no idea why I bought Bob Monroe’s biography ‘Catapult’ but there is something instructive in there that fits and for me clarifies David Hawkin’s blunderbust and the self destructive opening he created for great criticism of himself and his work.

The premise upon which he has built his muscle testing theory (and he did get inspired by John Diamond’s ’Applied Kineisology’ system) is that the body is a creation of God and therefore has an absolute connection to the truth and actually can be used in a ’non-verbal’ communication to signal truth and falsehood… by going rigid in strength to suggest truth and weak when suggesting falsehood… (and the word suggest may be closer to the reality of it… I.e… it is a suggestion as a clue to further investigate… not an absolute trigger)…

I have a personal known in connection with the musculature of the body… in one of my meditative session I had a complete past incarnation runout in a particular muscle group… I realized in that moment that we are the totality of all our past.

Bob Monroe in the early days owed a lot to biofeedback… but he didn’t try to ride that bandwagon… he carefully behind closed doors built his Hemi-sync model into a unique and independent system with the help of a lot of very astute volunteer genius’ among them Tom Campbell.

Hawkins seems to have simply jumped into the water tying himself to AK (which it isn’t) and very publicly making all the mistakes in full view of the public and especially to the glee of the army of knee jerk debunkers cruising like sharks in that treacherous ocean… first he has to revamp and justify by saying that the framing of the question is paramount… then, the operators had to be 200 or above…. I.e… have that level of integrity to get accurate answers… all of this should have been solved in the privacy of a lab and what finally got presented to the public was a solid well researched and tested system… a fait accompli...!!!

So do we have a charlatan or someone who is just naïve, stupid and incompetent.

It will take a well funded and dedicated research group to repair the damage and discredit of an ’idea’ which may have a profound basis in truth and could be a viable system of prediction in the right hands.

S.

Seraphis1 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2011 at 1:48pm:


  I find it interesting that when Bob Monroe asked his I/There aka the guidance level part of himself, if he could meet the most mature person living in his time-space reference, he was led to a person who was some 1800 years or so "old" (but looked to be somewhere from the age of 30 to 50), occidental in origin, and apparently already known about in some way. 

  The really interesting part is the "not recycled" like the rest of us part wherein this person was living one super long continuous in physical lifetime, and also btw doesn't need to sleep or eat at all "Oh, i gave those up years ago."  (also the perfectly balanced/merged between masculine and feminine is interesting too, hence the name label of "He/She").

  If Bob's account is more true than not, and my intuition and guidance tells me that it is, then I suspect if there is such a thing as "enlightenment", full self or God realization, etc...

...then such a person as "He/She" would truly be an example of that. 

    Along with Bob's account, i also find it interesting that there are some references in Cayce's work and in Rosiland McKnight's work stating that dying happens from living in an illusionary manner and there are some hints that if a person dispensed with all illusion and purely lived that which is reality then a person would experience neither aging nor death.

  More so interesting is the info in the Cayce work that states that Yeshua while he let himself die temporarily (for 3 days), did recreate or resurrect a body of sorts, one that could interact with others and perceive in a physical like manner. 

  Rosiland's guidance makes statements like that even before the crucifixion that Yeshua was so spiritually intune, he could fully phase into his "spiritual body", and thus was the reason of why he was known to have disappeared in crowds.  In other words, he had full control over all physical energies and reactions. 

   So i tend to remain a bit skeptical of people and sources telling me that this or that person was enlightened or fully realized when the fact that they have died and/or are aging etc. contradicts some very good sources of nonphysical type info. 

I find it quite interesting and telling that almost all of the people that have claimed enlightenment for themselves have either died or continue to age, get sick, and have basic material needs like any other person--like the need to eat, sleep, etc. 

  But as you may happen be able to tell, i'm not at all skeptical of the reality of enlightenment, and i believe it's a process and capacity open to all.

  But I don't think it's well understood and i think there are very, very, very few humans within our historical reference who have completed the full enlightenment.  Chances are, if a person died and stayed dead, then they didn't realize complete enlightenment like a He/She or a Yeshua. 

   

Quote:


The Comte Saint Germain???!!!

S.

Lucy wrote on Apr 25^th, 2011 at 7:59am:


Yes it is confusing... for example the Renaisance was considered the age of enlightenment... because people decided to use reason, experimentation to determine truth...

But enlightenment in the ultimate sense of 'self-realization' is a real experience just like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyuQbIb0Xs

S.