Conversation Board - My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources

recoverer

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #60 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 3:20pm

I don't know much about Christian Science. In some ways it seems similar to ACIM. Either Helen Schuchman or William Thetford or both were exposed to Christian Science as a child (my memory of which is foggy).

Regarding healing, I believe it is a complicated affair. I've found that some physical problems are a result of energetic blocks that are caused by unresolved psychological issues. If a person isn't willing to deal with this issue, I doubt a healer could do something.

An example of what I meant when I spoke of ACIM, it says there is no point in overcoming a particular fear because until you undo the seperation it won't matter (I don't remember the exact words). I have found that it is possible to overcome specific fears without ending the so-called seperation. It has benefited me significantly to let go of some of my fears. One of the reasons I used to have lower back pain is because of a fear-related issue. Such fear also clogged my heart chakra.

Seraphis1 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 1:08am:

recoverer wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Seraphis asked: What are the errors(of ACIM)?

1. It has too much of an all or nothing approach. It makes statements that make it seem as if there is no point in trying to overcome specific limited patterns of mind because until you undo the supposed separation, it won't matter. I have found that the more I have dealt with specific limiting thought patterns the more I've grown spiritually.

How does this invalidate the whole of the system or body of teaching. Christian Science has a similar approach with respect to healing which is functional within a certain narrow context and if its adherents follow the ‘healers’ instructions to the letter they can effect what appears to be a healing… but the healing requires complete and absolute denial of the existence of the ailment… it is not universally workable but, it does work for those who are capable of this kind of mind control. This is simply AN approach.

S.

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recoverer

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #61 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 3:40pm

Lucy:

Thank you for your kind words about my experiences. One of the messages I received is that Jesus' reputation has been spotted. I believe it has been spotted by both ACIM and fundamentalism. My guess is that he understands that it is best when we find our own path rather than a dogmatic approach created by others.

I once had a dream that seemed to make the point that people who are caught up in a dogmatic approach during this lifetime will learn from their mistakes and will be more likely to do better during their next incarnation (this might happen at a disk level rather than an individual-self level).

Whatever the case, I believe it was perhaps a mistake for me to focus on what you and Seraphis said about experiences people have with Jesus. My inclination to say something was motivated more by what I read elsewhere. Some people in a very assertive way say that people who say they had experiences with Jesus don't actually have them. Rather, they have some sort of interpretive error or hallucination. If people do in fact have experiences with Jesus I believe it is wrong for people who don't really know to negate what such people share.

I get what you say about people being able to have the freedom to speak about a source without somebody saying something negative about such sources. I find myself between a rock and a hard place when somebody mentions a source I find questionable. On the one hand I don't want to intefere with their ability to mention sources without it becoming an issue, on the other hand it seems right to share what I have found. Notice that I didn't respond to the Robert Bruce thread right away. I had to think about it for a while. I didn't want to go on and on about it, but in some cases I was asked questions and in some cases it seemed appropriate to write another post. There were a couple of instances when I didn't need to write the post I wrote.

I don't write with the thought that everybody needs to hear what I say. I'm thinking of people who might be interested. When I overcame some limiting belief systems there weren't any sources I could refer to. I had to figure it out mostly by myself. I believe it would've been helpful if there was something I could've read.

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recoverer

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #62 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 3:44pm

Seraphis:

Regardless of what definition one has of God, ACIM makes statements that makes it seem as if God is seperate from this world and doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

Seraphis1 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 1:21am:

recoverer wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Seraphis asked: What are the errors(of ACIM)?

3. It tries to get people to believe that God has nothing to do with this world by saying things such as "Everything God creates is perfect." Regarding this saying, if everything God creates is perfect, then where did that which created this world come from? God is not separate from this world. I haven't obtained the highest state possible, yet I'm able to experience divine love.

This is interesting because there is NOT one anthropormorphic God… there are thousands of anthropomorphic ‘gods’… beings who have harnessed the Astral Mud… the Facilitator for example. There is the Manifest/Unmanifest (some call this God)… which is pure Love and everything that manifest is perfect… this is the paradox… there is no source… things just are… why wouldn’t you be able to experience divine love, it is a place on the scale to the Absolute… but Pure unconditional Love… is another thing entirely.

So this concept is not far from the mark if understood in its proper context.

S.

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recoverer

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #63 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 3:53pm

Seraphis:

I used to be involved with non-dual teachings. ACIM is basically non-duality packaged another way. I knew of gurus (and their followers) who believed they didn't have to be concerned about the suffering that takes place in this world because the world is unreal (or they'll say it doesn't exist).

I believe it is important to not put the cart before the horse. Sure this world isn't the primary and ultimate reality, but it does exist in some way. It exists enough so many people suffer intensely. People involved with wars and natural disasters won't stop suffering no matter how many times a person repeats an ACIM affirmation such as, "that war over there isn't real" or "that natural disaster over there isn't real." Going by the messages I've received Jesus cares greatly about the suffering that takes place in this world. He realizes that perfection won't come to be until people do what is necessary to obtain it.

Seraphis1 wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 1:33am:

recoverer wrote on Apr 13^th, 2011 at 4:30pm:

Seraphis asked: What are the errors(of ACIM)?

4. It tries to get people to be indifferent about the problems of this world by making statements such as "Nothing you see is real." Its 365 day affirmation course serves this end. I can't remember the exact words, but it actually has people repeat affirmations that serve the purpose of making them believe that the intense suffering many people go through isn't actually taking place. Going by the messages I've received, Christ would not strive to make people indifferent. I find it hard to believe that Christ would come up with a one size fits all 365-day affirmation course.

That is a valid approach. The Cosmos IS an illusion… and

‘The greatest illusion of all is that man has limitations’ Robert A. Monroe

Case in point: A drug dealer in Harlem was about to be murdered by his rivals… he cried out to God… ‘…save me and I am your servant…’ in that moment of desperation to live and with a clear intent to serve God… he was spared… he now is a selfless preacher in the inner city helping the poor and disadvantage… this is a clear and self-evident proof of the fact that the cosmos IS and illusion held together by belief system matrixes… the drug dealer simple had a bold intention to change channels… voila… the channel changed… he survive to serve humanity, rather than undermine humanity.

But to accomplish this take primarily ‘grace’ but also a powerful intention. And affirmations focus that intention…

S.

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Seraphis1

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #64 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 4:25pm

recoverer wrote on Apr 14^th, 2011 at 3:53pm:

Seraphis:

I used to be involved with non-dual teachings. ACIM is basically non-duality packaged another way. I knew of gurus (and their followers) who believed they didn't have to be concerned about the suffering that takes place in this world because the world is unreal (or they'll say it doesn't exist).

I believe it is important to not put the cart before the horse. Sure this world isn't the primary and ultimate reality, but it does exist in some way. It exists enough so many people suffer intensely. People involved with wars and natural disasters won't stop suffering no matter how many times a person repeats an ACIM affirmation such as, "that war over there isn't real" or "that natural disaster over there isn't real." Going by the messages I've received Jesus cares greatly about the suffering that takes place in this world. He realizes that perfection won't come to be until people do what is necessary to obtain it.

The problem with your approach is you are trying to prevent people from indulging in there own personal illusion... when they finally get to the point they have had enough... they will do what the Harlem drug dealer did... shift channels... they don't need you to tell them when they are ready..

S.

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources Reply #65 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 4:33pm Seraphis: Please consider the last two paragraphs of the post I wrote to Lucy. It is also important to consider how people become aware of nondual teachings. If nondual sources are free to say what they want, why can't people who believe differently also speak?
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Beau

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #66 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 9:08pm

I surely don't want folks thinking I am trying to suppress anyone. I looked over my posts and I thought well, maybe it could be construed that way. I put this thread up so that we had a place to air this out rather than have it come up over and over in threads that aren't really on this subject. Granted the "Robert Bruce" thread is what prompted me to finally make this thread, but I am learning so much about what everyone thinks now about how we treat posts. I would get pretty bored if everyone saw it just like me. There were a few people on Campbell's board that were always going at each other and one of them started a thread that allowed for airing it out and it made a big difference in the quality of later threads since the reasoning got hashed out.

I hope this thread helps more than it hurts us as a group.

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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.

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betson

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #67 - Apr 14^th, 2011 at 10:20pm

Hi Beau, Recoverer, etc

How many years have many of us been discussing the afterlife? So yes, we do anticipate certain points of view from each other. So be it. Some change along the way and some don't. So be that too.
We each hope what we say may be helpful to someone somewhere. Where's the harm in that?
I think it's nice knowing where some are coming from and it's also exciting to hear the new experiences and views.
Right now I'm in my pollyanna pov.

Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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Pat E.

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #68 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:48am

Bets, I love that "Right now I'm in my pollyanna pov."! Perhaps we should all try for the pollyanna pov more often instead of the (whatever the anti-pollyanna pov would best be called) pov.

And maybe when folks are posting something that could be misunderstood, they could identify their current pov when posting (since we do change our pov from time to time).

So now I'm in my whimsical pov.

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Pat E.

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #69 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 1:55am

Lucy, I just want to let you know that your recent posts have resonated with me (as they say) and I thank you for speaking up.

I sometimes am dismayed by the negative, even destructive posts from posters that I often agree with or at least enjoy reading. But I don't post my reactions, which are frequently something along the lines of, "Now, now, children; let's just play nice." Coming from my Mary Poppins pov. (But wait, I've never watched Mary Poppins, so maybe I have it all wrong!)

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Volu Senior Member Offline Posts: 468 Right here and right there	Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources Reply #70 - Apr 15^th, 2011 at 11:58am Pat E, "We should all" & "they could" is kind of the crux of this topic. "Now, now, children; let's just play nice." Those words are lacking the respect complained about is lacking, with a mile high nose pov as a bonus.
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Pat E.

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #71 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 2:46am

Volu, your last sentence doesn't quite make sense, but I think I get your point.

I've raised kids. The point of my comment is that sometimes the posting feels like kids squabbling in the playground. I meant no lack of respect, but at times, posters leave little enough to respect. If that implies a mile high nose pov, so be it. But I was going more for a mom's-had-enough pov brought on by the antics of the viewees.

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Volu

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #72 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 5:24am

Hi Pat,

Coming to a point where one really and truly is allowing someone to be who they are isn't child's play, pun intended. I get that once you've learnt something it's sort of like the kids are playing, it's a beautiful day and they can't see it. BUT your comments show your not an adult in that regard neither, but nice try with the big clothes/words. The sugar adds another layer of (self) deception. There's much to be said about conflict, one of the positive things about it, when not getting completely out of hand, is the magic of showing particular sides of our beings we've used smoke and mirrors for our selves and other selves not to see, or don't know about.

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Seraphis1

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #73 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 9:59am

Hi Pat: Think of it this way: Perceiver and Interpreter... the interpreter just puts what seems to be related to what is perceived... then comes the banana in Brazil...

S.

Pat E. wrote on Apr 16^th, 2011 at 2:46am:

Volu, your last sentence doesn't quite make sense, but I think I get your point.

I've raised kids. The point of my comment is that sometimes the posting feels like kids squabbling in the playground. I meant no lack of respect, but at times, posters leave little enough to respect. If that implies a mile high nose pov, so be it. But I was going more for a mom's-had-enough pov brought on by the antics of the viewees.

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b2

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Re: My Feelings on the Condemnation of AL Sources
Reply #74 - Apr 16^th, 2011 at 10:03am

Life is an experiment in self-expression, not always a 'safe' and 'cozy' place. So we must reinvent ourselves over and over to adapt to what we cannot change. Which does not necessarily mean we must 'ignore' what we cannot change. But Bruce Moen's advice in places of personal conflict during meditation is, I find, a good one to practice at other times as well. To 'see it not there' is not actually 'putting the blinders on' but placing oneself in the center of a prayer of intent. What would you have 'in its place' is the question. Something, nothing? To recognize choices is a pause, is a pause and then a step in the 'right' direction. What is right for you? Do you wish to participate, or not? It is always a choice. Sometimes, for me, this results in a sense of 'unreality', a sense that life is so slippery, a sense that I don't actually 'know' what is real. And this leaves room for my imagination to grow. I suspect that is good for me, so my feelings are of gratitude. I respect and am grateful for you all, with all of your colors and sentiments. It is all good. Love to you all.

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