This board more than any other I belong to seems to find it necessary to condemn certain sources. I know its not everyone, but I think its a shame. There is a great deal to be learned from finding what works in a source even if it doesn't meet with the approval of someone else on the board. What it really boils down to is a condemnation of what one person perceives of as a New Age source vs a biblical or what resonates with someone as if the only thing that is worthwhile is what resonates with a particular individual.

I find that being able to make my own mistakes helps me grow much faster than following someone else's advice in this particular realm. If I find good material to consider in Tolle or Robert Bruce (I have only read one of his books) or ACIM (not that I find much here anymore, but for a few years I found a lot and it lead me other places that have been beneficial) Seth (Some good stuff, but I usually only read it on the toilet, so I don't know what that says) and truth be known I have found many things in the bible that have helped me to, as Tom Campbell says, lower my entropy towards love.

I don't condemn anyone's source even though it may not work for me or I get the feeling that it is BS. We are not all on the same path even though we may be headed toward similar destinations. If I have seemed harsh in any of my posts defending the right to choose freely and without restraint from judgment by others it was not my intent.

I think it is fine to say you don't agree with certain choices...which is what I'm doing now, I suppose...BUT going after the validity a source based on our own prejudices thus attempting to deny another poster's effort toward their choice does get under my skin. It happens a lot here. I think it sabotages the journey of others. I have fallen prey to it on occasion and if I was new here I'd probably just keep on surfing to a more open minded board. Sometimes here it borders on bullying. It does not come off as an opinion anymore when that happens. Its more like defending an idea that isn't even relative to the discussion once a source has been mentioned it a thread the whole thread turns into defense and condemnation of the source rather than a discussion of the source itself.

So I just thought I would speak up about it as it was on my mind this morning. After reading thru the Robert Bruce thread again I thought I'd add my thoughts, not on him, but on the general "policy" that seems to come about from attempting to discuss a source found to be beneficial.

I must say S- that certainly we are all bound to butt heads on occasion. I was just expressing a concern that would hopefully help us hang on to posters who are not crazy about some the chiding and loftier "be carefuls" that come from posts that seem to imply a knowledge greater someone else's. I find it rather tiresome as you can see from my post. But certainly all your points are well taken. I don't think however that there is a "wrong". I believe that any action taken is ultimately leading in the right direction. Ultimately of course it can take lots of time, but it's kind of like me and my girlfriend when we are going on a trip. She will insist on taking the longest possible means of arriving somewhere and I mean she always does this. While I try to find the quickest route. We both get there, but either one of us can get lost for a bit, but we learn from the experience, you know?.

  If my car needed some work done on it which at the time was beyond me, and I didn't know a good mechanic and was looking around for one...  I personally would hope that others
that i talked to and asked would share both the positive and critical/not so great experiences they had in helping me find out a decent mechanic. 

  Otherwise, if people shared only their positive opinions and experiences, then i just might end up getting swindled or mislead by a not so helpful mechanic.  Maybe that would teach me an important lesson in the long run, or maybe it was just a waste of time.  I guess that depends on the individual case and individual, but i would still hope others would share both their positive and their not so positive opinions and experiences.

  So this world goes.  Personally, it is my hope that more people would choose to consciously and directly hook up to higher guidance energies under ideal circumstances and go more within, and in being led that way they will figure out more directly and truthfully which outer sources are most beneficial or not.  For some reason, many do not seem to choose to do so when it comes to outer sources.  They let primarily their intellect lead them.  For me, this is self evident when i look at the state of the world and of most of the people in it.

  Some do do this and report back what they find. both positive/helpful and the non helpful, and then they are in a personal manner criticised and belittled for it even when they do not personally attack anyone they are speaking to, and speak out of a concern for others.  Notice how some talked to and treated Albert and I on the Robert Bruce thread.  Notice how we talked to them even though.

  There are sources that are more or less "b.s." out there, but are otherwise pretty much harmless.  I rarely ever comment on these kinds of sources.  Some are so ridiculous that most can and will see through them.  For me, it's a discrimination of numbers game.

There are sources out there which are b.s. and which block or hinder certain important realisations, which distract, or mislead about important info, and these i occasionally speak on.  Some of these sources have A LOT of adherents. 

  Listen or don't listen.  But realise this about this world and how things operate, and you can see this by looking at politics but also applies to spiritual sources.  (speaking of which, notice how the U.S. President Obama isn't turning out to be for the change he promoted about himself?  Yet again, we got hoodwinked about another deceptive/self serving outer source)

  In a world wherein the majority of people are internally unbalanced, not so attuned to PUUL, and generally finding their way around in the dark, e.g. more stuck than not, then most outer sources out there that are most listened to will not be the most spiritually helpful ones because like attracts, begets, and likes like.

  It is constantly circling cycle of stuckness here.  What we need are methods, techniques, and the simple awareness that we need to get beyond ourselves a bit in order to find, be attracted to, discriminate from the spiritually unhelpful sources the most spiritually helpful sources (most of which can be found within more than without).  That our intellects will not tend to lead us to these most helpful sources if we are not already powerfully attuned to PUUL ourselves. 

  Course, many don't like hearing this, especially if they are insecure.  Usually it's the truth that hurts the most though.  The good news though is that anybody with enough desire and true intention, can with the right awareness of how things work, find ways of hooking up to those most helpful guidance energies to have help in this whole discrimination process.

  The two most helpful i know is Bruce's remembering love method (though i personally like to universalise it after i bring up the feeling of it), and specifically stating or asking something like this during meditation or prayer, "I deeply desire to attune to the most Source (or PUUL if you don't believe in Source) attuned consciousnesses and energies, and deeply desire and ask for ONLY the help, guidance of such sources"

  These are some ways and methods of helping ourselves get past ourselves and the natural like attracts and begets like reaction that happens.  Since i personally realised some of the issues in the above, and started practising some of these methods, it has helped expand my awareness.  It's partly a humitly thing when you realize you don't necessarily know what's best for you and so you ask to be led by sources (from within!) which are far more aware and expanded than self in this moment.  You just simply have to ask and really want the involvement of such sources, and again attuning to feelings of love, gratitude, etc. all help out in the process.

Albert (aka "Recoverer")

I've peeked back into this site after many months, having been driven away by the your harsh & unrelenting judgments of my practice of Buddhism...    

and still I find you playing the role of "Spiritual Cop"!!!

WTF ????

Albert...everybody has to accept Jesus by your law-book...right?

Otherwise they're following a false path by your thought?

Who here asked or accepted you as their Savior?

(Anybody here ask Albert to save them?)

No?

Then..... shhhhh (stfup)

Sometimes I think you would be better off on an on-line dating site, instead of spending so much time  here at this site. This is just talking about ideas.
You need something more then didling away at a computer screen.

(Don't think about it)

The real point of life ( while you are living )
is to be in relationship.

Tim F.

Oh Boy

Freedom of Religion meets Freedom of Speech

= War

______________

The attempts to point out the flaws do not sound like or feel like warnings. They don't even feel like open discussions of the topic that serve to maybe warn of a bad mechanic.

Quote:


The "warnings" feel like being shamed.

______________

There used to be more of a variety of people who posted here. Some had experiences beyond what I had and some had ideas or beliefs different from mine. But it was good that they felt safe to post here. But then people would come on and make posts that perhaps they believed were warnings or at least were counter arguments. A bunch of folks who used to post here just left.( Maybe Tim was one of them? Hi Tim. Welcome back?)

Even now I hear about people not posting things here because they are afraid of being subjected to the ridicule that can pass as ..."warning".

And maybe there is time and space to make strong arguments for or against certain things.

But this board was supposed to be a place where people can talk about experiences they have beyond C1, shall we say. Now, are those things you can go into YOUR workplace and freely discuss? Hey, I work in a hospital, people come here all the time to die. But nobody seems to be walking around talking about the conversation they just had with so-and-so, who passed over yesterday...Would they end up on the psyche ward if they did? Well no it isn't that repressed.

So some of the topics that may come up may not directly have to do with conversations with the afterlife, but they fall into a realm outside of conventional topics. But we've established that this is a safe place to talk about the afterlife, so why shouldn't that safety be extended to other non conventional topics?

It is a good point, S-, about censorship. Certainly I would never propose such a thing anywhere though I can see how my comments might suggest that idea at times. I don't  have a problem with what anyone writes so much as how they write it. If someone writes as if they are an authority on a subjective subject such as the afterlife it is tiresome I feel. Lucy's point about shaming people is well taken and there are a few who use words like this as if they know something beyond the scope of the others. We all start on this journey from somewhere and if guidance is asked for it will be given in one form or another. I have a tendency to steer clear of guidance that has a Christian flavor to it because I think anyone who is dabbling in it isn't on the path that I'm on. They are going in a very different direction and thinking themselves further evolved than those around them. I'm not saying this is true for all Christians, but self righteous condemnation of anything outside of their sphere of experience or understanding always means the result if not holy to their eyes gets the Kai-Bosh. Of course that is ultimately true of any religion. When people start shaming each other on here I am immediately reminded of my Grandmother who believed that her guidance was IT and poo pooed everyone else's ideas because they didn't match her conception. What ultimately happened is she was spiritually abandoned by her entire family as they understood what was happening with her. Her mind was closed to all things not Hell, Fire and Brimstone...until one day she realized she had nothing to show for her "holier than thou" attitude and began to, at least outwardly, take new stock of the situation.

Most people I would imagine come here to talk about where Bruce's books have lead them and where they would like to go, but I see no evidence of Bruce saying  Jesus is lord in his books or Jesus will always save you. He mentions Jesus a couple of times and basically states that those who find comfort there will have it if they ask for it, but it is still a belief system. The mission it seems to me is to evolve past fears to love, but if I call on Jesus to save me then I have given up my challenge and I wind up in a hollow heaven. I seem to recall Bruce implying that it might not be a hollow heaven, but I'm not sure I ever understood how it couldn't be one if I conjured Jesus out of fear since Jesus is a metaphor in the first place (IMHO).

And just to address the Tom Campbell comment from up the thread a ways: Campbell speaks of these entities emanating from ourselves to test us and when we pass the test with no fear we are free to go on our merry way. He would I should think also say that belief in a Christ to pull your fat out of the fire is a belief system that ultimately will weaken your resolve as you continue to explore, because you depend on something like "magic" to get you by.

But enough of that, I'm not trying to argue a person's rights to their views in this thread. I was trying to open a discussion about censoring fellow posters with "shame" and condemnation of sources because they don't agree with someone else's Almighty guides. I don't think such attitude promotes any growth but merely squelches those who want to take part in the discussion. If some of us want to teach (and some, it appears fancy themselves teachers already) it is one thing, but to carry off a conversation into the bowels of "Be Careful", "how shameful" and "I know what I'm talking about and you are going to regret taking that path because my guide says so" is fruitless to me. And if I'm only speaking for myself then so be it.

I will also say this: There is no one on this board that I would not be thrilled to meet someday. I think we all get passionate on here about what we think ...or "know" and I bet we could still all find agreement in many areas of this diverse subject. I don't think anyone on here is a kook and I find merit in many things posted here. I figure even though the ridiculing will most likely not stop at least now there will be a thread that we can come to and blow off steam rather than infect every thread with the same mundane antics. My best to all of you.

Yours,
--beau

Beau wrote on Apr 12^th, 2011 at 10:28am:


I find agreement with you on the authority issue because there are no authorities… a Monrovian confinds oneself to personal knowns… aware that they are personal knowns and each individual has to arrive existentially to their own personal knowns… that said it should be just be pro forma understood that this is the case and one writes with personal authority, readers should always be aware of that fact otherwise you are always qualifying yourself in text which is exceedingly tedious and not good literary expression.

S.

Beau,
"My best to all of you."

I've got a message from your granny: your best isn't good enough. Besides the dame aflame joke, it's subtle, but you're in the shame game too. Now I just blamed and shamed you, but there you go. Other than that, you've got some good thoughts and nicely worded.

DocM,
"I got the same feeling you did from Tim's post, and this surprised me because I know him to be a loving, gentle soul.  However, we are all human, and all have our ups and downs.  Our likes and dislikes.  The "stfu" comment has no place here, but it came out of true anger and honesty, so there it is."

Many are loving, gentle souls, and while not everybody sees their true identities as humans, there's more to one's self if one dares to take a look at the whole.

Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people, living in stfu.