That's why we need an afterlife commune, Recoverer!

You could be the head honcho  just because you're male and older     We could take vows to not give up our free will    and to not proselytize and to support the need that someone needs to do the chores....

Hahah I'm joking !

Afterlife beliefs must be very important even to those who have none.  Even here we don't always avoid conflict.  People just have to experience it for themselves, then they are more apt to accept experiences others have had, don't you think?

Would it help if we could establish a ratio between inquiries of others' experience and statements about our own 'known' encounters?

Betson

Before I began my spiritual search, about 12 years ago, I took a martial arts class (aikido) in a dojo near my house.  There was a guy named Frank there who was very well educated.  However, at times, he went off about how he contacted mediums, received messages from his deceased sister through them, etc. which made me think he was off his rocker.  It is funny in retrospect, but at the time, I remember wondering - how it was that I could have a normal conversation with him at one minute and the next be talking to someone who believed in such nonsense?

Of course, deep down, we all want to believe that life has a meaning; that there is an afterlife and a grand plan to it all; that life is more about existing for a short time in a cold, cruel physical world and then, somewhat randomly being snuffed out forever.

My answer to Albert is that you can't talk to a "non-spiritual" person about spirit and the afterlife without coming across like either a loon or a simpleton.  However, there is an "in-between," and this is what I strive for when I talk with my patients about death.  I don't give them my "knowns" about the afterlife or consciousness.  Rather, I posit questions to them which allows their minds to leave the door open to the possibility of an afterlife.  I mention near death experiences (NDEs), and talk about how difficult it is to locate consciousness or thought in any one area of the brain.  I talk about Princeton's P.E.A.R. lab, which showed that human intent or will could change the outcome of random number generator machines.  And then, I simply pose the question - are they (the person), sure that all they think that they are (a human being solely existing due to a biological process) is all that there is?

Most patients (and friends I talk with) will then admit that they really don't know.  My hope is, that without talking further about OOB, spiritual guides, etc. right away, that the conversation leads the person to be open about the possibilities.

You see, the post-mortem state appears to be based on your inner most thoughts and convictions. Bruce has documented cases of those "stuck" in the afterlife, because they truly expected death to be a "sleep without end."  People who ask for help after they pass over, and expect help, seem to get it.  People who believe in nothing, get what they believe.

So I like to open the door to the idea that we are more than our physical bodies, and at least initially, leave it at that.

Matthew

I could just be really thick about it, of course, but I find that most of the people I talk with are surprised and have a renewed interest in the subject of the afterlife once I show some studies that are both pro and con and they see for themselves what the evidence is actually proving and not proving. But its kind of one of those things where you have to cater your presentation to each person as I have found that in my experience the same argument rarely works more than once because we all have such differing expectations.

Albert, how close are you to these people who are questioning your sanity?  Does it really matter what they think?

The only person who has told me to my face I'm nuts is my ex, but who cares what he thinks?   

I've been slowly becoming more confident in talking to people about what I think, believe, and do, and I'm surprised that a lot of people are interested or have had some of their own experiences and are happy to have a chance to talk about it.  People who I had no idea would be interested. 

Vicky

recoverer wrote on Apr 10^th, 2011 at 6:09pm:


I agree, and I'd add that there's a limit to how much you can let them get close to you.  I'm actually currently working on that in my life, realizing that I not only have a protective barrier from letting others in too close, but that I also have been protecting myself from a lot of things.  Even myself!  Long story.     I'm happy to still be on my journey. 

I wish you luck with yours too.

I for one don't think anyone on here is crazy at all. I just think that many people are able to accept a far larger % of faith to cover the unexplained or they think that the unexplained is explained through faith. Faith and fact however, are two different things. Faith does not make something true. Faith won't make a red car blue and faith won't make the afterlife exist. It's either exists as a fact, or does not exist as a fact. I simply choose to require solid factual data instead of faith.

I am not opposed to the afterlife being a definite possibility, or I would not be here. Trust me, I don't even last 5 minutes on the atheist forums. If you think I am closed minded, try visiting one of them... it's sick. They are completely certain the afterlife does not exist and the part that shocks me the most....

They are HAPPY that there is no afterlife.   

Regarding faith, it depends upon what you mean by "faith." If you mean an inaccurate belief system, then faith might not mean a lot. If you mean what your heart, intuition and inner guidance says rather than what your intellect tells you, then faith means a lot. I believe it is best for faith to based on love and humility rather than fear.

I've had numerous very interesting energetic experiences for which it was hard to know for certain what was going on. Fortunately, I listened to my heart and intuition, allowed the energetic work to take place, and benefited in a way that otherwise would not had been possible. I benefited in a way that not only helps me, but the spirit beings I assist.

Sure there are things that are unexplained, but on the other hand many things do get explained. It is possible for a person's overall non-physical experiences to happen in a way where he is certain that more than a selective imagination is determining what he knows.