Hi All: Finally christian theologians are owning up to the truth about the Bible they either always knew as thinking reasoning rational human beings and were afraid to voice or suspected just on the basis of being rational and not ‘insane’.

Bart D. Ehrman
Author, 'Forged: Writing in the Name of God—Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are'
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill,
Who Wrote The Bible ….
Apart from the most rabid fundamentalists among us, nearly everyone admits that the Bible might contain errors -- a faulty creation story here, a historical mistake there, a contradiction or two in some other place. But is it possible that the problem is worse than that -- that the Bible actually contains lies?
Most people wouldn't put it that way, since the Bible is, after all, sacred Scripture for millions on our planet. But good Christian scholars of the Bible, including the top Protestant and Catholic scholars of America, will tell you that the Bible is full of lies, even if they refuse to use the term. And here is the truth: Many of the books of the New Testament were written by people who lied about their identity, claiming to be a famous apostle -- Peter, Paul or James -- knowing full well they were someone else. In modern parlance, that is a lie, and a book written by someone who lies about his identity is a forgery.
Most modern scholars of the Bible shy away from these terms, and for understandable reasons, some having to do with their clientele. Teaching in Christian seminaries, or to largely Christian undergraduate populations, who wants to denigrate the cherished texts of Scripture by calling them forgeries built on lies? And so scholars use a different term for this phenomenon and call such books "pseudepigrapha."

Now we are getting somewhere possibly we will eventually uncover the truth that Christianity is actually warmed over Egyptian theology as the Egyptologist Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge realized when he translated The Egyptian Book of the Dead.

But, even he would have been surprise when Zakaria Sitchin in his Earth Chronicles suggest that the Egyptians got their religion from the Anunnaki of Sumera, who he suggest were of Extraterrestial origin and came to this planet 450,000 years ago and create the world we know today and that the Christian religion may actually be an Extraterrestrial religion… Interesting..

S.

recoverer wrote on Mar 26^th, 2011 at 2:20pm:


LoL!! Finally I find agreement with you recoverer. That is refreshing... nice post.

S.

Although familiar with the old and new testaments, I am Jewish by faith and certainly not a fundamentalist of any kind.  I never would walk around citing scripture word for word in judgment of others.  The bible is best understood as a work meant to enlighten people by way of illustrative allegory - as well as a semi-historical record that ties a people to its past, and their covenant with God.

All that being said, the title of this thread is ludicrous and has little to do with the afterlife.  Nothing said in the original post has substance, and when we get to the last paragraph about extraterrestrials being the first Christians 450,000 years ago, well we are REALLY off the deep end here.

I am all for stimulating controversial discussions.  But this thread is bible bashing without understanding how the bible is meant to be read; as a book of stories to illustrate the human condition.  Not as a factual, nonfiction textbook of history.  If there are fundamentalists who don't understand this, they are in the minority when compared to many people of the book all over the world. 

The notion that anything said in the first post here is "the truth" is laughable.

On the chance that some on this site may get offended, I would suggest moving it to the "off topic" area.


M

I can't say I know, because I haven't researched the matter thoroughly, but I believe it is possible that some of the people who are connected with the words in the Bible got their information from aliens. There is evidence that suggests that aliens have been around for a long time.

Berserk2 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2011 at 10:36pm:


I get it those who don't agree with you are lightweights. What constitutes a lightweight... did you read his arguements... are they valid... are his sources valid... the historical references are for all intents and purposes etched in stone... I think the preponderance of the evidence is that early Christian prosletizers decided 'intergrity and truth' was not important... the end justified the means... that is dishonest... ask the 40,000 murdered Kathar's how they feel about religiocide... in the name of a lie... we now know that the only reference to Jesus to surface in the literature of the ancient world was in Josephus and it is now well known to be a FORGERY.

Enough said.

S.

Although the internet is an amazing technical development, unfortunately, it promulgates psuedo-science and pseudo-factual information - confusing many otherwise intelligent conversations and making all efforts to obtain "known" truths relative.  There is my truth and your truth, and it is all relative, you see.

Only in some ways (important ways), it isn't all relative.  Either the first christians were ETs who frolicked on the earth some 450,000 years ago, as Seraphis states, or they were not and this someone's cup or imagination runneth over. 

In the old days, even 5 or 10 years ago, far out theories would be brought up, but through free debate, the theories not supported by fact would be discarded.  Nowadays, "scholars" are not always scholarly, and truth seems to come down to a matter of opinion. 

In the absence of a bonafide time machine, then, what are we to do?  Some of us, decide to make no judgments at all. 

You state you are the reincarnation of Napoleon?  Well, ok, maybe so, although I've heard of hundreds of others including, Shirley Mclaine.  But whatever.  Another person states that the President is, in fact a reptilian.   Well, its your view point, maybe its true, who can say?  "Reliable" "scholarly" sources say so (or it least its on the book of the month club site). 

You get my point.  While we all want to be open minded, the attitude that truth is relative, makes you, in the end believe either in absurdity, or in nothing at all (which may be good to get rid of belief systems, but is not at all practical in the physical world). 

We have the power of intellect and reason in part to use our discernment to separate out fantastic ideas, or fiction, from truth - which I define as clear perception of an event or thing, as it happened (or as it is).  We are not meant to throw these perceptual powers of discernment away so easily.


Matthew

  I imagine that translating such an ancient language that has only been readable since modern times is a hard task at times.  Translation errors are definitely possible. 

Either way, the way i look at it is the Sumerians and other ancient peoples didn't necessarily have the monopoly on truth and accuracy when it comes to beliefs and ideas. 

  I would make an analogy of say this current civilization collapsed along with most of it's knowledge and technology. 

What if in 3 thousand or 6 thousand years from now, a burgeoning new civilization with a totally different language (and ways of living) came upon some of our books, lol or perhaps somehow some massively saved I-net data. 

  Perhaps they learn to be able to read/translate our now ancient languages and they start doing so.

  Perhaps some might even start a new belief system and religion on some of ideas, concepts, and beliefs--after all, it's all so exotic and interesting to them.

  Well needless to say, while there is truth to be found in our various beliefs and there are "knowns", there is also plenty of opinion, errors, and skewed/limited perspectives.

Forming a belief system on our now ancient knowledge and beliefs would be a little short sighted for these future folks, wouldn't you say.  Wouldn't it be preferable for these future folks to find out the truth primarily from going within and directly hooking up to guidance?

Now, i am aware and do believe based partially on a combo of some E.T. contact, intuition, holistic logic, and research of other sources that seem sincere and believable, that E.T.'s have been visiting the Earth and otherwise interacting with humans for a very, very long time. 

   But there's many E.T. groups, and there are relatively different agendas on part of same.  Many are positive and spiritually inclined in relation to us and the rest of creation.  Some, at least one that i personally know of, is not. 

  Where does that leave us with ancient text, other than to know that some the very generals are true, but not necessarily the specifics even if one is  translating everything completely accurately to begin with (bit of an assumption to begin with)?

Rondelle wrote:

Don/Bruce-

It's interesting that even among supposed enlightened spirits in the afterlife, there is bias against organized religion, especially Christianity.

I had occasion recently to re-read one of Bruce's books (Voyages Into the Afterlife).  In the chapter titled The Planning Center, Bruce quotes one of the tour guides as saying:  "Look at the population segment where AIDS first showed up- in homosexuals.  Now there's a group even good Christians can hate."  (Italics mine).

I wouldn't think an advanced soul who is now serving an important role as a tour guide in the afterlife would ever say such a thing.

Makes one wonder.....

R


Recoverer responds: Could you please provide the page number so I can re-read the above?   

Below is what I wrote on another thread. I believe that if one is truly interested in what divine will has in mind, one would be willing to see if much of Christianity isn't accomplishing what is needed.

If massive earth changes do take place and fundamentalist religious people determine what the future is like, I don't believe this would be a good thing.

------------
Regarding the AIDs thing, I don't remember what precisely Bruce wrote, but I believe there are a lot of Christians who don't truly understand about unconditional love because if they did, they wouldn't have the attitude they have towards homosexual people.

When you see somebody you care for go through intense suffering, it can really play a key role in helping you move beyond a limited way of being you are stubborn about.

If a Christian who accepts homophobic viewpoints sees what takes place for a homosexual who has aids, this Christian might feel so much compassion for the person that he might decide to listen to his heart and live according to love, rather than what a limiting belief system tells him.

When Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, I don't believe he had it in mind to be judgmental towards homosexuals.

A few years ago they voted on the gay marriage issue in California. Christian groups held signs on public streets with the intent of getting people to vote against gay marriage. I'm heterosexual; nevertheless, I can't tell you how upsetting this was for me. What right does one person have to tell another person who she or she is able to love? None whatsoever.

Yet this is what the Christian groups were doing. They were infringing upon the free will of other people and not allowing them to decide who they want to love and marry.

Another sad thing is that these Christian groups acted as if they were doing something truly worthwhile that God and Jesus would approve of. If they realized how loving and non-judgmental God and Jesus are, they would see how off base they are.

Also sad, with all the bad things that happen in this  world, I've never seen these Christian groups demonstrate against anything else. They only sought to do so when they wanted to repress somebody else.

I became angry with them and shouted, "Jesus said to love your neighbors as yourselves. Is this what you are doing you hypocrits?"

So perhaps some souls who haven't learned about unconditional love will incarnate as judgmental Christians (rather than Christ oriented people), have contact with a homosexual person who is dying of AIDS, and decide to listen to their hearts rather than what some narrowminded preacher tells them.

Also, they might learn that it is better to find what's true for ourselves, rather than allow some guru or preacher tell us what to believe.

P.S. I believe there are many Christians who have good intentions and hearts; however, many of them are also caught up in a way of thinking that isn't beneficial. If they truly want their hearts and good intentions to blossum, they need to find an approach other than the one they are taking.