Some people who buy into the enlightenment viewpoint in the way that Seraphis seems to speak of it, believe that we keep recarnating over and over again without a break until we become a supposed enlightened being.  Therefore, if you figure an average lifetime is 60 years (just an example number), and each of us has to reincarnate 10 million times until we become one of the 1 in 10 million, that means we have to be in this world almost continuosly for 600 million years before we get a break.

I believe that spiritual growth is necessary, but people who have made contact with the spirit world have found that the growth process isn't limited to reincarnating in this world (or one like it) an incredible number of times.

I don't know if these figures come from Hawkins, but below is something he claimed (from this forum).

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,13156,page=2

"He also believes that he had a temptation from Lucifer similar to Jesus Christ in which he was offered the power to control worlds, though he states that he rejected this temptation. He claims to experience the classical attributes of God: omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. He teaches that he, as God or the Self, existed prior to the beginning of the universe, and will continue to exist after it ends. An archangel is said to have brought about Hawkins' enlightenment. He further claims to have been to the lowest depths of Hell, which lasted for an "eternity" and resembled the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch and the description of Dante's Inferno."

I guess Mr. 990 doesn't realize that the Bible's history doesn't support the concept of a fallen angel named Lucifer.


DocM wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 6:03pm:

Doc,
The calculated number of enlightened beings quoted by Seraphis was not pulled from a hat, but I suspect from another location, as is much of this thread, which you so innocently started with the best of intentions.

What? Regarding Dawkin's claims about being tested by Lucifer and such, even though I found this today, I first read about his claims several years ago.

Regarding Bruce's "Curiosity's father," if you go by that, we are parts of a disk, and a disk sends out numerous probes so numerous incarnations can take place. Therefore, it isn't necessary for individual probes to have to incarnate 10 million times.


Seraphis1 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2011 at 8:18pm:

  Regarding the notion that individuality is just an illusion, none of the high level psychic sources that i have researched--many of which have multiple verifications in connection with their work--support such a notion.  Also, most of the NDE's i've read, as well, don't support such a notion.

  All of these high level psychic sources support rather the concept that both Oneness and Individuality are both eternal and simultaneously true and equally important truths.  Such sources are Rosiland McKnight's work with her guidance and with Bob Monroe, Edgar Cayce's vast work which contains MANY verifications in many various areas, Bruce Moen's work, and certainly Bob Monroe's work does not contradict it whatsoever. 

   In Bob's last book, he awakens from the dream and into the ultimate reality and there he communicates with some "completed" Beings.  He still had a sense of unique self, and the completed Beings did not say that individuality and a sense of self was an illusion. 

  Because we're focused in the physical Earth, and separation seems to be such a built up collective perception here, sometimes it's more helpful to shift the balance and focus on Oneness more so to counter balance the strong collective tendency and perceptions towards that which emphasizes separation.   Because surely it is over emphasized here to a detrimental and non constructive effect.

  But to say that individuality is really just an illusion seems to miss the mark in all of this.

  One of my guidance messages went something like this when wondering about how this creative process all began. 

  Source was a vast undifferentiated Consciousness all alone, and in that aloneness was deep dissatisfaction and perhaps even aching longing for companionship.  These were stressed more to me than Bruce's concept of curiosity, but i'm sure curiosity was part of the motivation as well.

So Source moved within itself and created from within itself unique, "freewilled", self aware parts of itself as both companions to and co-creators with it's original Core self.  A part of Source remained independent & self aware in this creation, so that Total is greater than the sum of it's parts.   

  My feeling when connected to guidance is that Source doesn't ever want to go back to that original state it was initially in, in that deep and aching loneliness. 

  The Creator has insured that it wouldn't happen, by creating our individuality as an eternal process.  Whether or not we choose to keep it eternal is up to us for we have the ability to choose independent of Source/The original Creator.

Albert,

What I can't figure out, is that with the three stooges, Hawkins rated Moe a 490, Larry a 360 and Curly a 420.  Now any fan of the stooges would know, clearly that Curly was at least a 500 in terms of enlightenment - so it makes one wonder....

Doc!

What about Shemp? Don't leave him out. He's a part of the oneness too.

DocM wrote on Mar 25^th, 2011 at 1:11pm:

Justin, your post strongly reminds me of Tom Campbell's theories of how it all came to be in "My Big TOE".  Of course, Tom elaborates on those theories at considerably more length than you have done.  Yours was a nice summary.