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Joseph McMoneagle (Read 21462 times)
bird
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Joseph McMoneagle
Mar 17th, 2011 at 12:17pm
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McMoneagle

Joe is an instructor at the Monroe Institute and was employed by the government as a remote viewer. He believes that we did not come from primates, but creatures that resemble sea otters. Does anyone know more about his claims, their validity, etc.?
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Terethian
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #1 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:29pm
 
Firstly, the Monroe Institute is a "non profit organization" in which some human beings profit from.

A trip there typically involves thousands of dollars, of which, the typical 20k or less per year hard working American cannot hope to pay for. The entire organization is comical in that it maintains a non profit status when It does not merit such.

Further, this statement that humans evolved from sea otters can be assumed a scientific statement which would require some sort of evolutionary evidence.

Please note, evolution is a process in which we cannot study as it happens, we can only look at the results of skeletons and biological life forms.

However, it is likely that man kind most resembles apes/macaques etc. and evidence of transitional skeletons has in fact been found to support such claims.

The sea otter/human transitional skeletons are somewhat lacking to my knowledge....

Sadly, claims like this further assist my scientific assessment that TMI is not trustworthy.
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Pat E.
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #2 - Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:38pm
 
Terethian, I doubt that there is a nonprofit institution around that doesn't have "some human beings" profiting from it, whether through the salaries paid by the institution to all the people who keep in operating or otherwise.  But there are no shareholders or owners who receive profits simply as such, which is what distinguishes a for-profit and a nonprofit institution. 

While it may be unfortunate that not everyone can afford the under $2,000 price (with frequent discounts of hundreds of dollars) to attend a weeklong program at TMI (which includes transportation from and to the local airport, lodging and delicious meals and constant snacks, in addition to the programs themselves), that fact does not have anything to do with whether TMI "merits" its nonprofit status.
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #3 - Mar 25th, 2011 at 1:50pm
 
Terethian, Not sure what your problem is with TMI but it would seem that you know little about it, or what it offers. I am not saying that the price tag isn't high for some people, but when you get what you need for that cost, its not high at all. How can you say its not a nonprofit? Perhaps you should look at the online financials before you continue to stick your fat feet in your mouth.(Did I get that backwards?) They are available for anyone to read. Just go to their site or give them a call to get the web address. I think Joe could have said that we came from amino acids and that would have some up in arms that it wasn't monkeys mentioned. How about we came from God? Or for women, a rib. My ex might have came from a McRib for that matter. That's not saying she was fat and greasy mind you. Just unpleasant, and she did leave a foul taste in my mouth. And just like a McRib she keeps coming back and giving me heartburn. All kidding aside, I have gone to TMI three times. I found it worth every penny charged. Top notch. Life changing stuff. I am not the only one who found it so.  So why the sour grapes Terethian?
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #4 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 4:27am
 
Terethian,

Quote:
. . .
Sadly, claims like this further assist my scientific assessment that TMI is not trustworthy.


I have attended TMI a number of times and I highly recommend TMI's program.  Yes, they are not cheap.  At my income level I can no longer afford to attend their programs. But I feel that what I paid to attend TMI programs was more than worth every penny.

I completely disagree with your assumption that the personally held beliefs of an instructor have any bearing  on TMI's trustworthiness.  It's like saying that Duke University is untrustworthy because one of their professors believes that humans are not the result of evolution.

I know Joe personally and have never heard him discuss the beliefs you attribute to him.  If those were, or are, his beliefs I fail to see what difference it makes to anyone attending TMI programs.  I know Joe often is a speaker at TMI programs, but if he is an actual TMI program instructor that would be new news to me. Regardless, from my experience attending many of their programs it is my opinion that TMI instructors are extremely careful to avoid having their personally held beliefs influence participants in any way.

Bruce
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #5 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 5:43am
 
TMI "tape":
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/downloads/explorer-series-27-the-origins-of-man/

In the above TMI Explorer "tape" around 4:00 - 7:10, one of the Explorer talks about some creatures who look like sea otters, very human like, intelligence in the eyes, stand upright, etc. I have no clue who this Explorer is, but it seems that the initials are HAP.

Remember that the sea otter impression can be an astral representation, and not the real creature.

---

There exists a water ape theory. For some time time apes lived at the beach, and developed into humans, then left the beach, see link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

Man has by that theory achived some features, which apes mostly lack, except for the ape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proboscis_Monkey

Man has almost no hair on the body, similar to many water mammals in warm waters. Woman have longer hair so children can hang on to them in water.

Man's feet have developed from "hands" into "flippers" and man's body has straightened out to better fit swimming in water. Man can swim very fast compared to a gorilla.

Man has a different nose than chimps & gorillas. Man's nose prevents water entering when submerged, looking for food like sea shells. Put a gorilla's head under water and it will flood and it will panic.

Man has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_fat which chimps and gorillas lack, but that kind of fat is developed by all sea mammals.

Man automatically switches to (a limited form of) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradycardia , which only sea mammals do when their face is submerged into water, but which chimps and gorillas don't do.

---

The book, by Joseph McMoneagle & Charles T. Tart, where sea otters may be mentioned could be this one (see reader comments):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Time-Machine-Perception-Predictions/product-revie...
Title: The Ultimate Time Machine: A Remote Viewer’s Perception of Time, and Predictions for the New Millennium
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #6 - Mar 26th, 2011 at 4:02pm
 
Everyone who has "psychic percepts" (for lack of a better term) sooner or later comes up against the question of what to think or do about psychic data that just doesn't fit in with one's expectations, beliefs, prejudices, preconceptions, etc. etc. One could be so wedded to pre-existing interpretations that the percepts simply get "squashed" or fall off the radar screen altogether and into the subconscious memory dump. To, I think, his great credit, Joe (whom I also know personally, though we have never discussed this particular topic) doesn't subconsciously or consciously censor this kind of anomalous data. He even publishes it. But it's precisely through the investigation of things that just don't fit our preconceptions, or anomalies (literally, "lawbreakers"), that new ideas, paradigms, and discoveries are made. Plus, if the past is, as Joe believes (and I do, too), as "plastic" as the future is, then perhaps what we think and perceive about the evidence for it is as important as the "evidence itself" (whatever that is, because nothing is anything until and unless it is perceived). Have an otter day!
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 12:22pm
 
bird wrote on Mar 17th, 2011 at 12:17pm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McMoneagle

Joe is an instructor at the Monroe Institute and was employed by the government as a remote viewer. He believes that we did not come from primates, but creatures that resemble sea otters. Does anyone know more about his claims, their validity, etc.?


Hi Bird,

As far as I'm aware there isn't any supporting evidence for this claim, but yes i'm aware that this was part of one of his R.V. sessions, and it's written in his "The Ultimate Time Machine" book.

My sense from having researched him and his work a bit is that McMoneagle does have notable and fairly consistent accuracy when it comes to R.V.'ing physical objects relatively in our time/space cycle and reference. 

But not as high an accuracy rate when it comes to other stuff like more complex processes or future or far past stuff. 

I will say there is an interesting bit of corroboration in his book "Ultimate Time Machine" with some of Edgar Cayce's info about Yeshua (Jesus Christ). 

  Many years ago in giving a couple of physical descriptions of Yeshua, Cayce's guidance described Yeshua as not looking particularly Hebrew or Aryan like, and in two different readings mentioned that he had noticeably reddish hair.   Well, more specifically in one reading was described as a mix of light brown,  reddish, and golden. 

  Bob Monroe set up a R.V. like session with McMoneagle wherein he put a target in an envelope and asked Joe to try to remote view some information about said target.  This is not a true R.V. session as the military developed though.

  Joe did pick up that the target was Jesus, and interestingly described Jesus as not just a particular time/space personality but also as kind of an Archetypal (Light) Being who came in every once in awhile to help correct humanity in relation to a certain ideal or truth.   Different times and places besides Palestine and his life as Yeshua were mentioned including Greece, South America, and China.

Yet, interestingly, Joesph perceived that in all these different times and places, the physical manifestation of this powerful Light being was similar (and sometimes unusual for that place and time) and this was as a man about 6' 2", auburn hair and light skin.

  If you read the account, you will see that Joesph seems to have a really hard time of grasping, understanding, and translating the information related to this Being.  He mentions that at the time and to this day that he is unconscious of what was said to Bob during this session and his only memories are of the feelings of the very jovial, joyful, and humorous nature of this Being. (something the Cayce readings also stressed about Yeshua).

Regarding Joseph McMoneagle in general.  I am somewhat hesitant to speak about the following.  When i was attending the Gateway Voyage program at TMI in Faber VA, i received a couple of very vivid guidance messages about McMoneagle. 

The first didn't really concern him in a personal sense, but was a way for Guidance to create a powerful verification for me because it involved precognitive information in relation to Joesph and an event i experienced. 

The 2nd came after the first one in the above, and came after i had met and  interacted with him a bit. 

The 2nd came unbidden during a particularly deep meditation wherein again we went through the "ask 5 questions of guidance", and i couldn't think of anything specific and just asked to be shown something important or helpful for me to be aware of.

  I then experienced a very vivid, sort of "waking dream" sequence involving observation of McMoneagle. 

  What i saw left me unsettled and not particularly trusting of him. 

This was confirmed to me a bit later when my wife purchased his book "The Ultimate Time Machine" at TMI, and perusing it, particularly the "future" prediction stuff i kept getting the feeling of how off this information was.  I began to wonder if it was deliberate.  I'm still not sure one way or another. 

  The guidance message/vivid waking dream, well this is what i saw: 

  I was observing McMoneagle sitting at an old arcade game, and he was intently playing a violent and bloody game.  His vibe and manner was very, very "cold" and calculating. 

  Apparently there was a slight reflection of my energy body or something in the screen, and McMoneagle started to become aware of a presence observing him.  He started to turn around to look at me. 

  As soon as i became aware that he was becoming aware of me, i had the feeling of, "better leave now before he gets a solid fix on me."   Why i should feel such caution for just observing him and not wanting him to become aware of me specifically, i was confused by at first but later figured was an essential part of the message.

  I interpreted this message and experience to mean that McMoneagle still works for corrupt, quite anti-PUL groups that are involved in violent activities.  Him "playing a game" part i interpreted as he has created a facade or deceives people about this aspect of himself and his life.  Perhaps it also means that deep down he is a callous man who doesn't care what his activities or help to these groups entails and produces.

The very cold and calculating vibe and manner is pretty straightforward.  Lack of attunement to PUL, too much focus on intellect, etc. 

  I'm not sure I'm interpreting this message correctly, which is why I am hesitant to share this publicly.  Yet, even before i tried to interpret the message, as mentioned it left me a bit uneasy and untrusting of him.  That was the deeper intuition part of the whole experience, and a process i've been focusing more and more on as a way to receive information from guidance rather than "seeing" symbols, etc.

  While I'm hesitant to share because i'm not a hundred percent sure what this message means, at the same time i feel that if i am interpreting this message correctly that i have a responsibility to share this information publicly because some look to McMoneagle as a source of wisdom, insight, etc. when it comes to the nonphysical and particularly future predictions.

  Bird, very interestingly and synchronistically, around the same time you posted this query on this board, i was writing a part of the above about McMoneagle to a friend via email.  I didn't mention to the friend the name of this person though.  I wasn't aware of your post at the time.  When i did come here and read your post shortly after, i thought that an odd "coincidence".  I took as perhaps a sign that i should talk openly about it despite my reservations. 

  Also, perhaps related. My rather psychically sensitive wife much later on, got guidance messages that she (well actually "we") were being kept tabs on psychically and otherwise by non friendly human group(s) and an E.T. group.  In one message, she received that someone connected to TMI may be involved.  This is interesting because my wife is more open and has less interpreter overlay when it comes to this kind of stuff than myself because she is not as consciously focused on these kinds of issues as i am.  She tends to be more focused in the mundane, material aspects of everyday life.
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #8 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 2:29pm
 
I haven't been to TMI and I know next to nothing about Joe McMoneagle.

That said, I can't say I'd want to do remote viewing for the government. Perhaps it can be done in a pure way, but I wouldn't want to tell them where to send the missles, or how they can caputure somebody so they can torture that person.  One would have to be quite callous and uncarring to partake in such activity. If one vibes in such a way, perhaps one might receive information from an unfriendly source. Such  source might mix in some hits in order to make it seem as if the receiver is a trustworthy receiver of information. Or in other words, verifications don't guarantee that somebody receives information from a light oriented source.

Didn't TMI used to have a program where people can make contact with ETs, then somebody from the government  made it so this program is no longer available? Did Joe have anything to do with this?

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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 2:47pm
 
I just looked at the program and list, and it appears that Exploration 27 might help a person make contact with the gathering. I can't remember where I read about alien contact being limited at TMI. If somebody knows the details of what is possible compared to what used to be possible, please clarify.
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Terethian
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #10 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 2:52pm
 
Sounds like this sea otter thing was taken out of context... I'll agree to that.....

but...

It does not negate the fact that TMI meditation binaural beats "technology" is simply the imagination come to life so you often get all sorts of strange and ridiculous things like talking creatures or aliens that lived on earth years ago that were more advanced than us and died off etc. etc. etc.

Tell you what, if you can provide a real scientific experiment with TMI which involves a repeatable OBE experience that can be tested time and again and involves viable evidence, (not just an "experience") I will accept that it is a legitimate and non-imaginative event.

Something such as special code words placed in a separate laboratory room in a double blind repeated study where the OBE person tells the word and or numbers will suffice. And the test must be repeated successfully multiple times, under multiple circumstances and different testers and the whole thing must be video taped.
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #11 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 3:02pm
 
  I remember reading something similar, but the details are fuzzy. 

  TMI now has "Starlines" and "Starlines II" which seem to be geared towards contact with other intelligences, the gathering, etc. 

  I think if i am remembering correctly, there was some earlier program like this, it was taken away for awhile, but now they have the two above programs.

  Re: the J.M. issue, both J.M. and the U.S. government claim that there are no Remote Viewing programs currently in operation for the U.S. military, funded by the Federal Gov., etc.  And haven't been for awhile.

This may or may not be true.  If it is true, this doesn't mean that the private sector doesn't have such kind of programs going on.

  It seems to me the more and more i learn about how things operate in this country, and to a lesser extent in the world at large, that the private corporate, financial, and banking sector and the governmental are increasingly connected and in bed with each other (due to collective greed, materialism, selfishness and a lack of higher ideals).

  Case in point are the issues brought up in the excellent, recent documentary movie "Inside Job".
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #12 - Mar 27th, 2011 at 3:32pm
 
I read an article recently and the U.S. military has a special budget where they get billions of dollars they don't have to account for. Therefore, they have a way to fund programs only a few people know about. Perhaps remote viewing and other psychic programs are funded this way.
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #13 - Mar 28th, 2011 at 2:17pm
 
Hi bird n all,

On March 14 I had a perplexing brief vision that may relate to your interest in our origins. I did read your thread before this and thought "That post topic is certainly coincidental. Too bad that vision I saw came before it because it could have related." Then I remembered --time is relative! The vision and your inquiry could be related!

So, what I 'saw' was a shield, like you sometimes see in heraldry. It was being held up by a marmoset-like creature sitting up that gradually morphed into a bear! The image was detailed like an old engraving but all in blue and white. Wow, bird -- see how that may relate?

I know it's rather late to prove I saw it and that there's a connection, but I know, and thought I'd share.

Bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Re: Joseph McMoneagle
Reply #14 - Mar 28th, 2011 at 5:04pm
 
Quote:
Sounds like this sea otter thing was taken out of context... I'll agree to that.....

but...

It does not negate the fact that TMI meditation binaural beats "technology" is simply the imagination come to life so you often get all sorts of strange and ridiculous things like talking creatures or aliens that lived on earth years ago that were more advanced than us and died off etc. etc. etc.

Tell you what, if you can provide a real scientific experiment with TMI which involves a repeatable OBE experience that can be tested time and again and involves viable evidence, (not just an "experience") I will accept that it is a legitimate and non-imaginative event.

Something such as special code words placed in a separate laboratory room in a double blind repeated study where the OBE person tells the word and or numbers will suffice. And the test must be repeated successfully multiple times, under multiple circumstances and different testers and the whole thing must be video taped.


There are so many assumptions packed in here, one hardly knows where to begin. Plus one wonders whether it is worth the effort, since it would seem that the author of this post has already made up his mind (and I assume that it is a “he” since this kind of “challenging” post about belief-systems is almost always part of the male pissing contest ritual) that OBEs and other psychic percepts are nonsense. Which begs the question, What in the world would such an individual be hanging around here for, except to participate in the above-mentioned bear-baiting rituals? Well, taking the chance that others might be genuinely interested, let’s say the following:

The notion that imagination is just fantasy (“mere” or “simply” imagination) is precisely the assumption that Bruce Moen (among others, including most esotericists) has been challenging for some time now, with significant results. Properly understood and used, the imagination is a doorway, or an organ of perception. Which is not to say that it is infallible. But the number and quality of the confirmations he has received and that others have received using his techniques are impressive. These are not laboratory results, but they are empirical—that is, experiential. The assumption of 17th century science (under which most mainstream science still operates today) is that only that which is repeatable under controlled conditions is real. But this approach leaves out only about 99% of our significant life experience, which is made up of singular, non-repeatable events, like falling in love for the first time, losing a parent to death, getting one’s first job, losing one’s virginity, and so forth—not to mention, for some at least, near-death experiences and out-of-body episodes.

The supposition that only nature as observed in a laboratory and mathematically quantifiable is real and intelligible is deeply ingrained in our modern western consciousness, but it is historically and anthropologically untrue. The Indians were great observers of nature, and knew quite a bit about her, even though they didn’t have nice shiny laboratories or wear the white lab coats of our scientific priesthood. Moccasins and animal skins did quite nicely for them, thank you. But their attitude was to harmonize with nature, rather than dominate and control her (Cf. the above comments about the masculine temperament and its urinary habits), which was (and is) the attitude of those that became their conquerors.
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