People describe lower realms in different ways. Some people say that spirits stay in an isolated state where they feel regret for the negative things they did while in the world, and move onto the light after they forgive themselves (e.g., Paul Elder's book Eyes of an Angel, one of Bruce Moen's exploration partners, and some NDEs).

Some people say that people who lived their life in a negative way end up in a realm with negative spirits and they are able to hurt each other as if they have physical bodies (e.g., Emanuel Swedenborg).

Some people say something similar, except that spirits can't hurt each other in a physical way, because they don't have physical bodies (e.g., George Ritchie's NDE).

Some people say spirits stay attached to this world until they are willing to move on to the light. If they are addicted to something such as drugs, alcohol, or sex, they'll attach to a person with a similar addiction. This viewpoint might contradict what Bruce Moen wrote about there being hells such as an alcoholics hell, because why would spirits remain earthbound and attach to people if they can go to an alcoholics hell?

Even though these various people "might" contradict each other, I believe it is possible that they received information with the assistance of spirit beings that are trustworthy. It may be a matter of different people needing to hear a different kind of message.

I had an OBE this morning that started as a dream. Suddenly I realized I was in non-physical state, perceived everything in a very clear and vibrant way, understood that I could fly, and that a guide was with me. First I flew over what seemed to be the San Francisco Bay, except that it seemed quite different. It was really beautiful, the water was completely clean, and had a beautiful color. I said, "this is really beautiful." My guide said, "everything is beautiful."

This might seem like an odd thing to say, considering some of the negativity that takes place in this world, I figure my guide meant that eventually everything works itself out. I saw a structure in the bay that is hard to describe, it is possible that it symbolically represented the negative parts (memories) of the creative process that are stored away as things are worked out as we evolve towards perfection.

Next, my guide and I went through a large barrier that extended from the bay and up to through the sky. I understood that this barrier represented the entrance into a lower realm. I got ready to see unsettling things. I didn't feel afraid (just a little concerned), because past experiences have shown me that I don't need to be afraid and because I had faith that my guide would be able to help me if anything bad took place.

As I thought about what I might see within a lower realm, my guide said, "there are a lot of rumors." I understood that he meant there are a lot rumors about lower realms. For a short time I heard that shreaking violin sound you can hear in old horror movies. This was a humorous way of being told that I didn't have anything to be afraid of. Despite my expectations, I didn't see anything negative as we floated through this lower realm.

We landed on the ground and it seemed as if we were in this world. When I looked around I saw East European child athletes. East European countries and China have a history of testing their children in order to find potential Olympic athletes. I don't know all of the details, but going by some of the things I read, some of these children are forced into intense athletic training regardless of what they want. I figure this is quite oppressive.

Perhaps I was being told that despite the numerous viewpoints that exist, when it comes to human beings, negativity exists in this world, not in the spirit world.

I had a recent dream that relates. I won't go into all of the details, but it seemed to make the point that after spirits rejoin the spirit world they experience whatever they need to experience in order to get back on track. This is done on an individual basis and some spirits experience their own personal hells according to what they need (and in some cases, believe).

I've read about hellish near death experiences (NDEs) and watched youtube videos about hellish NDEs, and each person has a unique experience rather than experiencing the same hell. Sometimes they'll experience a large dark void, sometimes they'll experience a realm with negative beings, one man found himself in a very large white room where he was completely alone, one man walked through tunnels and caves that led to an underground hell that supposedly exists within this planet, one man experienced an extensive life review where he experienced in a very detailed way how he harmed others—and there were other experiences that were unique to the individual.

Each of the above NDEs were worked out so that in the end the person made a decision that enabled he or she to move on to the light. Perhaps their divine helpers worked it out so they experienced whatever they needed to experience to move on. This relates to my dream, where in an ingenious way each person was provided with an experience that helped he or she move on towards the light.

When it comes to people who harm others, I believe we have freewill, but it is hard to use this freewill in a wise and loving manner when our soul hasn't had a chance to learn to use it in a wise and loving manner. Therefore, it would be very harsh if some souls got stuck in a pickle of negativity they could never find their way out of or would have to experience for an overly long period of time. Anybody who understands about the value and joy of living according to love, wouldn't choose a negative way. Therefore, negative minded people probably don't understand why they should choose love rather than negativity.

Hello and thank you Jeff.

usetawuz:

It felt like I was either flying or floating, depending upon how fast I was moving. Not like superman though.

It was one of those OBEs where you're excited to see where you go next. The mystery is half the fun.

There was one point where I had my arms outstretched, and it seemed as if this was prompted by my guide. It might be symbolic for opening up and embracing the oneness that includes everything.

On the other hand, perhaps I didn't actually move anywhere, it just seemed that way.

usetawuz:

I don't have them on a regular basis. What I get on a frequent basis is short waking dreams that play the role of messages.

When it comes to lucid dreams, I'm just as conscious as I am now. Often during a lucid dream I make a point of noticing how real everything seems. I generally get the sense that if I wanted to float or fly I could do so. The most puzzling part is trying to figure out where to go. Usually my guide brings me through whatever experiences will be beneficial.

If I were to find myself with somebody who is dead or a famous person I'm not likely to interact with, I would take notice--this is unlike what takes place in a regular dream.

I've had some lucid dreams that served the purpose of getting me to will them to an end, so I could get out of the predicament I was in. I believe such dreams are a metaphor for what to do when things seem problematic in this world. Don't get too caught up in things and remember what my existence is really about.

Regarding how some people say OBEs and lucid dreams are different, during an experience such as the above I feel as if I'm having an OBE, and as I said, I'm quite conscious during such an experience.

I haven't experienced the paralysis and vibrational state that goes with OBEs for several years. I believe this became unnecessary after my vibratory rate increased. Perhaps the need goes away after a person stops judging whether an experience is valid by whether or not he or she experiences the effects that are associated with OBEs.

Interesting chrwe:

I can't say for certain why you had such dreams. Regarding the devil, going by what I could figure out through academic and spiritual means, there is no such being.

I read about a guy who had an OBE where he went to hell and Lucifer was there. He told the being who was supposed to be Lucifer that he doesn't believe in him, and the experience came to an end.

Due to a translational error a fallen king of Babylon, a physical person, was turned into a fallen angel known as Lucifer.

Not to say that unfriendly beings don't exist, but it seems as if some people speak of them in a manner that is inaccurate.

I went through a process similar to you. I had a number of OBEs where I dealt with unfriendly beings. My spirit guidance set up these experiences so I could overcome my fear of unfriendly beings. It was a matter of reaching the point where I stood up to them with courage. Perhaps you had the experiences you had for similar reasons. Perhaps it wasn't a matter of being told precisely how things are.

  This is what i've gotten:  What we perceive as physical and nonphysical is primarily different in the rate of vibration or frequency--that which is physical is very slow vibratory in nature, and that which is nonphysical is much faster vibratory.   Yet, both and all is contained within the One Field of Consciousness.

  What people perceive as "nonphysical", "lower", or temporal hell regions of Consciousness is not as "nonphysical" as we think it is. 

In other words, in a sense, these levels of consciousness are rather "close" to the physical Earth level of Consciousness.  This is because there is not a big difference in the vibratory rates and ranges between these. 

  But, it needs to be understood that there are various "levels" or sub-dimensions within this general "realm". 

This, i believe, accounts for some of the differences in people's guidance, experience, and perception regarding this general "realm". 

  At the more faster vibratory, not quite so lacking in Light luminosity levels of this general realm, are found those who have gone off their path in their physical life, and so when they become aware they have died, they feel ashamed and feel like they need to isolate themselves.  These folks generally aren't that lacking in Light, but there was a greater difference between their Soul dynamics and what they ended up moving into in their physical life as a personality.   Hence there is greater guilt and a kind of, "i knew better, why did i f' it up so much." 

  Then there are the mid vibratory levels of this general realm wherein seems that Bruce, Swedonborg and some others had experiences and perceived about.  These levels tend to be more "collective" in nature than the above.

  Then there are the most lacking in Light part of this realm which is so lacking in PUL, as to appear extremely dark.  This is the consciousness level or dimension wherein exists those aspects/personalities of a Disk which may be "let go of" if the Disk is ready to graduate otherwise en masse.  The true "death" that Bruce spoke of in his books.

This level is both very isolated, and yet collective at the same time.  There can be interaction between different consciousnesses, but the thinking and attitude here is so separatist that in many cases it's delusions of interactions rather than true interactions with others.   And these delusions tend to be very dark, twisted, and sadistic.  It's very hard to reach these consciousnesses here.  For lack of a better analogy, it's very "Freddy Krueger" like. 

  The "boundaries" so called, between our physical level and the various sub dimensions of this general realm are not as set or firm as we tend to believe them to be.  Remember, it's not so much a matter of concrete places, but more of relative vibratory ranges, levels, and wavelengths which are all connected to each other within a Total Field.  The more similar the two or more different vibratory pattern and frequency, the more "connected" and consciously aware of each other they are.

  If a human makes a sufficient energetic connection to a consciousness in such a realm by slowing down their own vibratory patterns, and thus "matching wavelengths" more and more with such a consciousness, such a consciousness in a realm can become consciously aware of the in physical person, and then will try to influence them as much as they possibly can. 

  Helpers and guidance levels of the Field are constantly trying to act as counter influences to this, and so full "possession" is somewhat rare.   But there are various things that can affect this.  Even a very imbalanced physical vehicle can affect this and make it easier for a dark realm consciousness to influence a human.

It's not just about one's inner attitude, beliefs, and lack of PUL attunement though these are often at least major, and often the most important factors.   The physical body is a consciousness, a vibratory pattern, which interfaces with the nonphysical, self aware and determining consciousness.   If the physical body becomes so imbalanced, the nonphysical levels of Being connected to that vibratory pattern will have to expend so much energy just to keep that body alive. 

This takes away energy potential for other things like the etheric "sheath" that protects the physical body from "invasion" from other consciousnesses. 


Then, besides all the above factors, we also have to consider that an explorer's perceptions is not just based on what guidance decides to reveal to them depending on what they need, etc, but also their individual capacity to accurately and holistically perceive, translate, and understand, in a general sense. 

The more PUL attuned and balanced a consciousness, generally speaking, the more they accurately and holistically perceive and understand about what guidance knows and shares info with them about.  Generally speaking, the more aware such a person. 

  In other words, there are various degrees of spiritual maturity of different explorers and sources of info.   Some are more accurate and full pictured aware than others. 

  When we become a Christ (PUL personified and always attuned), then do we come to perceive it all in a very universal and holistic, and thus much more accurate kind of way. 

Till then, there will be and cannot help to be errors of perception to some extent and degree depending.  Again, all relative to degree of relative PUL attunement or lack.

  This is why it's helpful to be discriminating and not too attached to other's info when one is aware that that source is not a full Christ or has been changed by those not fully intune with same (in the case of some religions--Christ was a Christ, but those who followed after weren't and altered some of the teachings).

  Now, if one's guidance is of and from the Christ level, then one can implicitly trust the accuracy, holism, and helpfulness of that source.  How does one know?  One way i've learned is through the radiation of such a source.  If they, it, or whatever radiates a very pure, radiant, very bright White Light, then it is "Christed". 

  But don't assume you will automatically perceive, translate, and understand completely accurately even if you are getting info from such a source.  Again, the greater the difference or similarity between you and such outer vibratory patterns, the less or more you will accurately understand, correctly perceive, and delineate/translate such info.

Sometimes such guidance from such a level, will, with your Greater self's permission, temporarily speed up your vibratory patterns in order for you to more correctly and fully perceive and also understand the info being shared.