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Death by dementia before the body dies - causes? (Read 5233 times)
chrwe
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Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Jul 12th, 2010 at 12:32am
 
Hello dear ones,

firstly, let me tell you how great it is to have found some people who explore the soul and its journey and are willing to share their experiences on the internet. It feels like a little ray of light in this existence which (for people like me who are "locked" in their bodies and in scientific thinking) can be pretty dark.

Here is a thought I would like your opinions on.

As you know, there is an increasing number of old people who are suffering from terribly debilitating dementia like Alzheimer`s. If you live to be over 90, your risk is 50% to develop this dreaded disease, which will kill what you consider your personality and mind before the body dies. To the outside, it seems like the person is "gone", at least in the late stages of this disease (they don`t recognize any family members, for example, and sometimes don`t even seem to have self-awareness anymore). I have always prayed that I will be spared this and have a relatively healthy mind until the last day, since dementia seems to me a most terrible way to leave this life.

Now, also, it has been shown that a high risk of Alzheimers coincides also with having had to care for a demented relative for a long time and/or losing your spouse or close family member - when you are already old, of course.

I`Ve wondered why that is. Can it be that some part of this disease is caused by people wanting to "leave this earth" because they cannot bear it anymore? That they are not gone in the universe, even though they seem lost to us? That their souls already "leave" and leave their bodies here because they just do not want to go on? That it is becoming more and more frequent because this world insists more and more that there is no soul etc and people are becoming depressed and hopeless and therefore "give up"?

What do you think?
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betson
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #1 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 4:38pm
 
Yes!
I agree with the possibilities you offer, Chrwe!

You've certainly thought about it more than I had. What you suggest seems so very probable. 
It goes with an ancient idea that we have layers of consciousness that can peel off individually.  Sometimes in afterlife writings these layers are called aspects.

You seem to be onto something that could be very helpful to such people and their caregivers!

Bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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spooky2
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #2 - Jul 12th, 2010 at 7:44pm
 
We are constantly becoming, here on this world. "We", that are the persons we are here. When we're young, we're young persons, when we're old, we're old persons. When the body is dead, we're no persons here. If we'd knew we were more than mere persons, we didn't need to worry.

Spooky
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Ralph Buskey
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2010 at 1:14am
 
Greetings.


   I have a theory which may explain some cases of dementia, especially those of which they forget who friends and relatives are. A psychic author named Ruth Montgomery in her book "Strangers Among Us" once introduced the concept of walk-ins who take over a person's body:
http://www.newagefast.com/soul-exchange.html

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&zTi=1&sdn=paranormal&cdn=newsiss...

   A common problem that walk-ins have is recognizing family and friends of the soul that they changed places with. It could be that some people hitting 80 years or more just get plain tired of living that long.

Ralph
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Ralph Buskey Ralph Buskey  
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Volu
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #4 - Jul 13th, 2010 at 11:00am
 
Ralph,

Alzheimer's different than walk-ins/friendly "aliens" (oh noo! isn't that topic dead already?!!) checking out this system. Found the Kelemeria Myarea Elohim piece in the link interesting.

"From the moment a child is conceived, the parents already "know" what it is that their child is going to do, because the child has done it before in another lifetime."

Human becoming may have two strands of DNA, but at least our discs don't have a one strand incarnation. Haha, so much for being earthlings. Remembering/remembrance, the alien/new age channeling mantra, doesn't apply when having lots of incarnations at the same time as that would be distracting and chaotic, but still the supposedly non-interfering beings want to be teachers for "humans". Indigo children/starseeds/walk-ins, a little taste of the blank dish.
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usetawuz
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #5 - Jul 14th, 2010 at 9:31pm
 
chrwe, it seems to me that there are those whose bodies should have concluded their viability at some previous time but were "cured" by mans medical prowess.  We are here for a reason and if we cannot die of cancer, TB, or some other dread disease, something has to come along to end the physical life...especially if all your soul mates are already on the other side waiting for you to come home and plan the next play date.

My wife's parents both died withing two years of each other...my best friends parents both died within two years of each other...then my wife's best friends parents did the same...see the pattern?  From our incarnate, human standpoint, we see that the other spouse no longer had anything to live for and died as a result...the tragedy of losing a loved mate...and it is a human tragedy.  But we are only human while here.   Look at it from a soul's standpoint...each of these couples had all raised their children, lived through good times and bad, were philosophical about the loss of their mates (with natural loneliness, and appropriate grieving, of course) and then when the time came they were looking forward to it as much as their sense of socialization would let them (keeping up the good fight to survive) with kids all telling them to hang on (for what, I cannot imagine...winning the lottery?).  They had all lived good, productive, fruitful lives...what was there to hang on to?  Why not move on and get the next one started? 

Each of my four grandparents have passed in their nineties, although my maternal grandmother still tweaks my cheek when I look cute.  Each of them went with little fanfare and drama, all had no problem talking about looking forward to the next opportunity, no fear, just boredom with their current lot and the loss of everyone who was a contemporary.  Each of them was "somewhere else" at times and we would have to push a little in order to bring them back, but they were, at worst, early stage Alzheimers (the one who wasn't, the maternal grandmother cheek pincher, died on her 98th birthday...the oldest of all).  There is no alternative...we all will die.  The plan we have put in place to end this incarnation may take care of it for us, but if not there will be other causes...some may be more appealing from our current mind, but l daresay that whatever ends it will be effective to enable our transition.  And then we get to do it again...with a new plan/play and with all our friends meeting us at different points of the play to enable us to live different experiences.  The 98 year old told me with absolute seriousness a few weeks before she died..."Scott, never live to this age...everyone who can understand what your problems are is dead and anyone alive to listen to you cannot imagine what you are doing.  And just know that where you go from here is a whole lot better than where we are now...I've seen it.  Oh, grampa says hello."  
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chrwe
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #6 - Jul 15th, 2010 at 1:17am
 
I agree fully with you, ustawutz, and it is consistent with the fact that 90% of all people who live to very old age - and who feel that their life has been somewhat fulfilled - are very calm and accepting towards death at least and downright looking forward to it at best.

No, I was just wondering if people whose mind goes away way before their body does (I know someone who lived 20 years with Alzheimer`s, gradually leaving this earth completely before her body actually died) chooses to give up on life in this fashion because "real" suicide is out of the question. At least some people, I suspect, do that (if a soul exists Wink). Early-onset or rapidly progressing Alzheimer seems more like a "normal" (and quite awful) mental disease to me.

To me it makes sense, especially together with what you say about your grandmother who lived to 98. Mine is 89, I love her very much, but she is already talking a lot of meeting "all her family" who is "up there" already. And she is also gradually experiencing mild cognitive symptoms, coinciding with when she started to seriously talk about "now its time". I just noticed a pattern here.

thank you all for your comments Smiley
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Jean
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #7 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 4:17pm
 
Hi Guys,

It's so difficult when we try to speculate about our lives and purpose. We have to constantly refocus the lens between ourselves and our families and the world at large and between the past and the present.

We need to make certain assumptions about our experience to be able to make any sense out of it. Locally the problem of dementia or Alzheimers seems like a personal issue but if you believe that we each have purpose then what service might the individual provide?

Or where might these conditions be on a scale of concern compared to the random suicide bombings at a wedding or the victims of recent earthquakes?

Then we add history to the equation with the assumption again that we each have a purpose. Change is the reality that we have dealt with since we've been recording our history but never before have we had so many of us here and able to communicate by the technology we've created.

Further assuming that everything”s progressing as it should be and its all for our higher good and that we each have a part in the entire scheme, why wouldn't dementia also be a valuable piece to the puzzle as well as the bombings and pollution as well as our ever increase technology.

Somewhere I read that we humans create with our minds and hands the very things that we possess inside ourselves. And the purpose of all of this is explore, satisfy our curiosity, and to remember
we 're all one by using emotional glue of love.    

My dear husband, he just turned 82 on 7/14, had a major stroke while we were on a Nile cruise boat back in '97 and we have been dealing with vascular dementia for the past 13 years.  Since neither of us is really into doctors, this conditions was only diagnosed last year by our local VA hospital.

The main reason I'm glad we didn't know is because it might have affected our decision to take a chance on relocating in AZ where I was able to achieve my goal of getting my ASU, BSSW degree  and subsequently working in my field till I became a fulltime caregiver. I also might not have contacted Valley Fever and experienced the most wonderful loving atmosphere in possibly the focus 27 planning department before I realized that I was returning here. I did get to learn the difference between aftereffects of drug induced coma and an actual visit out there. During that 2 week coma, my non physical self was extremely active.

The best part is that because of my being introduced to Bob and Bruce's material in the 90's, I was able to keep my head about me during and after my experiences. Thankfully this site was there for me to process by sharing my experiences through the posts and getting feedback.

So what have I learned? I'm listing a few or the valuable lessons I've learned these past years. I learned that I am stronger than I thought. I learned that the individual I love so dear is separate from the daily cognitive challenges presented. I learned that his nightly hugs would be sorely missed by me. I learned that his daughters family very much benefits by his being here. I learned that without the support of this board and the understanding that I am more than my body, I would probably not have been able to continue to deal with the ups and downs of being here or survived some system crashes that I experienced these past years.

I learned that maybe he's not necessarily still here for him but possibly for the rest of us and that one persons purpose might not make any sense to the rest of us till we gain a much larger perspective.

Jean, Kiss

P.S. This message was proofread and approved by my husband, Mac. J. Grin
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Volu
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #8 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 5:10pm
 
Hi Jean,

Goodt post, and enjoyed reading about your experiences, not the hardship/trials/growing pains, but that you're sharing.

When reading this post and many other posts it strikes me how often I/individual/individuality is bypassed. This has been kind of surprising to me when coming to this board. I wonder if it's partly because it's connected to being selfish. Many experiences bypassed by we're all one, us, family and so forth. Yeah, we aren't islands, fortunately. One of the things I've translated from beyond earth to being in a body is that we sure do have individual experiences/goals too.
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chrwe
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #9 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 11:02pm
 
Jean, do you then believe your husband will be whole again - or more than whole - once he dies? This is the only part I find terrible, personally. That one may never remember one`s loved ones, or even what you are and learned yourself. Or take the case of poor Clive Wearing. This man can not experience anything new, he is forever caught in the present moment, he cannot improve anymore or truly experience or learn anything. He is loving, yes, but not "alive" as we see it with progressing experiences.

I do believe that others can learn from such an experience, but how about the person themselves?

Do you believe they will be whole again when they die? I find it so hard to believe when I see such a case of brain damage that one will be able to experience anything or "be" and "think" and "learn" without a brain at all (i.e. dead).

I pray daily that I will be spared such an experience. It is really my greatest fear after death itself (as in oblivion, not if there is an afterlife).

Of course, these sick people deserve all our loving care, of course they are valuable and of course we can learn to give from them or sometimes (Clive Wearing) even learn how great love can be. But I just hope they will be healthy once they are completely free of this body - and not simply "gone". And I do believe that - if this is true, if there is really an afterlife for all of us - they may just choose to go there before it is time for their body, or they choose to have this short experience of not knowing about themselves to teach others or themselves something.
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Jean
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #10 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 7:10pm
 
Dear chrwe,
 
Jean, do you then believe your husband will be whole again - or more than whole - once he dies?

Christine, I've had experiences and created experiences which strongly indicate to me that I are more than my body and that there actually exists what many refer to as a soul/spirit/essence  beyond the physical world. Therefore I view my husband as whole but with certain physical limitations (not unlike many of us possess to varying degrees). Anything that I would say regarding his purpose here is pure speculation on my part but the love he provides to me and his daughters is real, pure, and of top quality.

This is the only part I find terrible, personally. That one may never remember one`s loved ones, or even what you are and learned yourself.

Some of my reading regarding what is remembered after death during a life review or neardeath experience seems to mainly focus on those we loved/hurt as opposed to the chores we may have forgotten or our accomplishments.

Or take the case of poor Clive Wearing. What is remembered after death This man can not experience anything new, he is forever caught in the present moment, he cannot improve anymore or truly experience or learn anything. He is loving, yes, but not "alive" as we see it with progressing experiences.

True he does have less than a 30 second memory but he does appear to have long term memory when it comes to his best loves, his wife and playing the piano. He also appears to be happy and healthy and unaware of his loss. I read many Oliver Sachs books and was once fascinated by some of the mental limitations some individuals live with. Being married to Mac is my first experience living with an individual with memory and cognitive difficulties. As impatient that I sometimes get with him, he can be twice as hard on himself as he loses more short term memory and former skills.  But his capacity to feel empathy, increased honesty, and deepening affection makes up for those loses to me. 

I continue to work on giving you some feedback in hopes that might help.

Love and peace, Jean Kiss
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chrwe
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Re: Death by dementia before the body dies - causes?
Reply #11 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 12:34am
 
Thank you Jean,

this is very interesting and helpful to me, not only because of my personal fear sickness, but because my great grandmother (whom I knew until I was 18) and now my dearly beloved grandmother both suffered a lot from memory loss and ability loss. And I find comfort in the thought that they will be whole again one day - and, ofc, re-unite with the people they loved and who went before them.

christiane
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