Marshall, the man who pointed me to this site, is a long-time Tibetan Buddhist practitioner and meditation instructor.  He had read all of Bob Monroe's books and Bruce's Moen's books and visited this forum.  After my daughter died and Marshall was starting a book class on "Mind Beyond Death" by a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Marshall talked about the Monroe and Moen books and this website and outside of class particularly recommended them to me because he thought they might be helpful to me in dealing with my daughter's death.  Now I feel I have a found a new parallel path to the Buddhist path.  I read Bob Monroe's first book back in the 70's.  Had I not been in the oppressive marriage I was in, I might have followed this path much sooner.  But better late than never.

I have found Tibetan Buddhism to use language, symbols and explanations of beliefs that are hard for the Western mind to fully grasp, as Bruce says.  But I think those teachings are quite compatible with Bruce's views, for example.  And, at least in the Shambhala Buddhist variety of Tibetan Buddhism, each person is encouraged to discover his or her own truth, accepting what works for him or her through experience, but not being obligated to believe everything or even anything.  And, of course, with a meditation practice at the heart of it all.

Volu:

This past Friday night 20/20 had a segment about a Christian group that teaches its children to hate gay and Jewish people. The parents and their children stand on the street holding up signs that say things such as “God hates fags,” and “God hates Jews.”

The show interviewed a teenage girl who spoke of the hypocrisies to her parents, and she was kicked out of the group and her family. Her father basically said that it doesn’t trouble him that she’s out of the family and going to hell for all of eternity (supposedly), because she went against God. Her siblings have the same response to her. Even the 3 year old sister she raised.

The above people believe they are following somebody’s supposedly infallible interpretation of the Bible, therefore, with fear at their side, they won’t question.

Something similar happens when people follow supposed enlightened people.  Supposedly enlightened gurus, preachers, priests, whatever, point a gun at other people’s heads when they claim to be infallible people who should be believed or else.

Sure some people find their way out of the trap, but many go their entire life without doing so. Perhaps in the long run their souls learn the lesson to not allow self appointed enlightened ones to mislead them, but in the meantime this world continues to be a messed up place, partly because too many people are telling other people what to do and believe, and too many people listen.

Regarding my past lives, I once had an experience with my disk and I met this member who was a young Asian man.  He said he admires me. I believe he does so, because unlike him, I found a way to not be misled by supposed enlightened people who try to force their ideas on other people by claiming they are enlightened and therefore incapable of saying something that is false.

None of us including me gets it right all of the time, and it is dishonest and misleading to pretend that we do.

recoverer,

"Something similar happens when people follow supposed enlightened people.  Supposedly enlightened gurus, preachers, priests, whatever, point a gun at other people’s heads when they claim to be infallible people who should be believed or else."

A youngster frozen out is in a much tougher spot, hopefully the reward being a huge leap in growth. Seeing it visually, the people that bow to these ones have placeholders in them for the kinds of hooks thrown out. Don't see it not happening unless they learn, by engaging, to dismantle what connects the hook within themselves in the first place. Some jokers may even enjoy the power they have over the ones that bow to them, and it's not right, but they aren't going anywhere, lightning doesn't hit 'em, and the days pass. So, victimhood is the symptom, what's within the knee bender is the root of his/her problem. If this incarnation doesn't care for advice, then so it is.

"Sure some people find their way out of the trap, but many go their entire life without doing so. Perhaps in the long run their souls learn the lesson to not allow self appointed enlightened ones to mislead them, but in the meantime this world continues to be a messed up place, partly because too many people are telling other people what to do and believe, and too many people listen."

I hear you. But can't see the magic wand fixing this unless experienced and dealt with by the soul in question.

"Regarding my past lives, I once had an experience with my disk and I met this member who was a young Asian man.  He said he admires me. I believe he does so, because unlike him, I found a way to not be misled by supposed enlightened people who try to force their ideas on other people by claiming they are enlightened and therefore incapable of saying something that is false."

And there's the dilemma - people following supposedly non-enlightened ones from one's standpoint - force (in whatever degree) them to follow one's standpoint? - That just doesn't seem right and sounds like the same 'I know what's best for you' light polarity crapola like the alleged master would say.

I used to think some members paved the way for other members with the accumulated experience. Also used to think members who had access to their disk had a different task at hand than other members. Now I'm just not sure anymore. Cool to hear about meeting the asian incarnation though. Remember any others?