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Reincarnation and self (Read 12509 times)
chrwe
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #15 - Jun 2nd, 2010 at 11:11pm
 
Can anyone explain to me, tho, why we forget everything about our past in this life? Would it not be much more helpful to the learning experience if you remembered?
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b2
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #16 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 7:04am
 
What we forget, as I see it, is from our lack of attention. It is surprising what we can remember from our own lives, when we are deeply relaxed and our minds are clear and we are willing to remember. There are many things that people would rather not remember, because they are painful, or embarrassing, or considered shameful. Even those who have been very fortunate, more blessed in some ways, would not necessarily want others to be 'forced' to experience their own 'lack' through being 'compared' to others. Therefore, what makes better sense than a 'level' playing field? One in which most of us just don't remember too much. Then, everyone gets a chance to be the 'hero' of their own life, no matter where they start, no matter who has a supposed 'advantage'. We just start over. Simple as that.

chrwe wrote on Jun 2nd, 2010 at 11:11pm:
Can anyone explain to me, tho, why we forget everything about our past in this life? Would it not be much more helpful to the learning experience if you remembered?

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betson
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #17 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 10:21am
 
Hi

also, what one thinks of as 'my self' is a concept that applies to physical life. Once we get back into the afterlife phase, we may retain attitudes or feelings (not emotions) but not so much the self or ego.  There, much of each individual life experience is shared, then discarded.

This world is relatively dense.  Wink   Cheesy   Boundaries are established here that aren't needed elsewhere to protect each point of consciousness (each 'self' --woops.).

A sense of that merging of self can be found in some NDEs and some other mind states retained from afterlife (some out-of-body) explorations. Discarding all the boundaries of the concept of self is not a giving-up, it's a gain.

Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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usetawuz
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #18 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 10:52am
 
chrwe wrote on Jun 2nd, 2010 at 11:11pm:
Can anyone explain to me, tho, why we forget everything about our past in this life? Would it not be much more helpful to the learning experience if you remembered?


First, are you asking why we forget things from our past in "this" life, or did you mean from our previous lives?  If you mean the former, I do not have an answer other than the idea that some things leave an impression strong enough to remain in your conscious awareness, while others only arise when you need them.  If the latter, then if you already knew the answers to the test, why take it?  Other than to ace an easy grade, what would be the point, as that is what it would be if you had the full knowledge gained from previous existences available to you now. 

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chrwe
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #19 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 12:43pm
 
Hmm, ok. It`s hard to wrap my mind around these things. For example, many Buddhist and people like Ken Wilber say we have something like an inner core that does not relate to our memories, feelings or thoughts that is our real soul. I just cant wrap my mind around properly what this essence may be - although I sometimes think you can feel it in other people.

Also, it would be nice to remember past lives, but granted, that would be a bit like "cheating"
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bird
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #20 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 3:38pm
 
sometimes i feel like a lot of what we have learned is possible through the work of bruce and monroe is kind of like cheating. i don't mean it in a bad way, i'm just saying that now i have gained a bit of knowledge, i find that it has completely changed my outlook on many things, things that i'm not sure were "meant" to be changed.

so many people walk through life saying "you only get this one life", or the whole concept of a bucket list. these perceptions have really changed for me. it's a weird feeling when i'm faced with certain standard beliefs that just don't seem to work for me anymore.
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usetawuz
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #21 - Jun 3rd, 2010 at 4:43pm
 
bird, I get what you are saying, but in that same vein, there are friends of mine who do not credit anything I say about things they have not experienced themselves.  And that is fine...my guidance has said that they are not ready yet, and exposure to my worldview cannot harm theirs and the path they are living in this life.  Likewise, the understanding and learning I am experiencing in this life was planned and both me and my soulmates had placed various clues, calls, tells and situations which would awaken me to the direction and purposes we had planned before coming into this lifetime.

For the longest time, every woman I met with short dark hair and a petite frame would attract me like a bug to a lightbulb.  I no longer react the same way (lucky for the women!), but one of the women that fit that mold had an extremely powerful message for me, and repeated it to a truly dramatic effect 18 years later which effectively pushed me into my current situation.  Another that fit the description is my wife.  Both of them are longterm soulmates and we are following our lifeplans as the scripts they are.

I was meant to discover and learn about this topic over the course of this lifetime...I don't think the messages and signs resonate to anyone who had not intended to reach some level of understanding along these lines and in this lifetime.  In other words...I don't think you are cheating by investigating these things!
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bird
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #22 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 9:10am
 
that really is a great way of looking at it - thanks! it makes so much sense. why do you think people like us have chosen to open ourselves to this information, but others have not? does it imply that we are more highly evolved souls? i don't mean that in an elitist way. but for example, my husband and i came together under very trying circumstances, and long story short i truly believe he and i are following a life plan that we agreed to prior to coming into this life. however, he does not buy into the same belief system as i do. he is not really into the whole afterlife concept or that we are following some kind of plan. if i felt my purpose in this life was to teach and enlighten him, then it could make some sense, but he truly doesn't seem open to any of it. and of course i'm not gonna shove it down his throat if he's not receptive.
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b2
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #23 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 11:26am
 
Yes, I appreciated that perspective too, useta.

From where I sit, I think that 'noninterest' can be a positive trait in a partner, if a person is an 'explorer', or if a person is considering new outlooks and 'ways of being'. It allows for more personal freedom for the 'explorer', for more freedom to pursue different practices and ideas. To be involved with someone who is actively trying to change your perceptions, your beliefs, etc. can be discouraging and nonproductive. I think we hinder each other's journeys when we do that, and it is very easy to do, even unintentionally.
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usetawuz
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #24 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 11:34am
 
I think some of us are here to realize our truths about life and the afterlife and as we discover more, we share more and something we say may resonate with others and awaken something inside of them which enables them to begin their own path, and on and on.  I don't think it is any big secret, it is just that while incarnate we can get so caught up in all the materialistic aspects of our earth and the strength of our physical interpersonal relationships and current predominating world views are a high hurdle to overcome in any effort at "feeling" as opposed to "proving" our beliefs.

I don't know if we are more advanced, rather I think that we have simply planned prior to this life to face the idea that there is something greater than our existence on this earth and in three dimensions.  Everyone will come to the truth at some point, whether in this life or the next, or whenever...and certainly upon leaving this lifetime...to me the secret is trying to come to as much an understanding of my eternal soul as possible while still incarnate.

Funny...my wife tolerates my continuous fascination with this awakening with little to no interest.  She has been my child and my mother in our two most recent incarnations together.  Her time incarnate is mostly spent on staying in the third dimension and remaining "in character" on earth, while mine have always had a stronger bent toward curiosity and investigation.  I even know her name as those two previous incarnations and she has no desire to hear them...oh, well.

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bird
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #25 - Jun 4th, 2010 at 12:53pm
 
that's super cool! how did you learn of you and your wife's past lives? i often wonder how my husband and i were connected previously.
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #26 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 10:34am
 
bird wrote on Jun 4th, 2010 at 12:53pm:
that's super cool! how did you learn of you and your wife's past lives? i often wonder how my husband and i were connected previously.


Long story short, I learned how to read my akashic records and how to meditate.  My goal began as an effort to discover why some people meant so much more to me than others...my family and friends, acquaintances that seemed familiar, etc.

A former fiance was an instantaneous familiarity and connection and the most intense 10 months of my life.  We broke up dramatically and left each others lives.  Why had we had so much mre than any other relationship I'd ever had?  Then I met my wife and had a "love at first sight" connection and everything flowed easily.

I was on my way into a mid-life crisis and had an extremely intense vision of the fiance 18 years after our breakup and felt things I hadn't felt in all that time.  I could even smell her perfume after that interlude.  Thus began the search into why and how.

I found that the most recent nexus between me, my fiance and my wife was the life where I died at 17 in 1905...the mother, saddened by the loss of her only son is now my wife, while the sister, who survived the accident but held feelings of guilt for the rest of her life, was the fiance.  And we have played various other roles for each other in many previous lives. 

This was the most recent and interesting connection, and it forced me into the direction I am now moving.  Others include a world war II death with a brother in arms who is now my best friend and client; my son has been my son on three previous occasions; a woman I am yet to meet was a former daughter, lover, wife and at some point may become a business partner.
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Bruce Moen
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #27 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 5:35pm
 
Chrwe.\,
chrwe wrote on May 26th, 2010 at 11:24pm:
I think he is more or less stating the classic buddhist approach, which in essence means we do NOT have a soul that survives death and there is no afterlife

Not sure where you got the idea that Buddhists believe that, not the ones I have talked to anyway.
For me their beliefs about having a soul are just a little difficult for the Western Mind to grasp.  Taken in the context of what we call our Higher Self it says we DO have a soul that survives death and continues to exist after life.   I think your confusion is in not realizing that we are each an individual expression of our Higher Self.  We were created to be self aware beings that are unique personalities by our Higher Self with a purpose that can only be fulfilled if our identity continues survive after "death."
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that our soul is an illusion and there is only "the one"

Again I would ask in which context, from what perspective could that statement give the illusion being correct?   I have only "one" physical body yet I appear to have hands that perform separate fuctions.  So I have no Body because I have Hands?  What if there IS "only one soul" and I function as that soul's hand or fingers.  Does that mean I have no soul?  Not from the perspective being both the hand and the higher self.
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an all-awareness of which I am only a part....great...why make these parts who are individual and want to stay so?

Maybe the simple answer is that the "all awareness" you are "only a part of" are both different "versions" of who and what we really are.  You as an individual and you as Higher Self coexist, what you experience depends on which "version of you" you are focusing your attention through.
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Being part of the "one"...fine...losing all "self" within the process...senseless and cruel imo

In my opinion your belief that you lose "all self" is a basic misunderstanding of who and what you truly are.
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why live and love and learn if that is so?

Basically, you are right, if at death we as a conscious, self aware being ceased to exist and all that you experienced was lost too, why would we exist at all?  Absolutely no reason too exist at all.  BUT, we do exist as a grand collection of the experiencers/experiences of every part of our Self!  So there must be something you are misunderstanding or not understanding about a reason to exist.  Because none of us would if their was no reason to.  Nature doesn't waste time nuturing useless life forms.

You are not useless.  You exist and will continue to exist long after the point where time and space no longer exist.  Maybe you could consider exploring beyond your present beliefs.

Bruce
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recoverer
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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #28 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 6:43pm
 
Okay,  I’m going to go on a rant here, because, what the hey. Smiley

Bruce’s comment about knowing Buddhists who believe that we have souls,  that’s  good to hear. I just spoke to a guy today who has been into Tibetan Buddhism for years, and he said that Tibetan Buddhism says that a soul doesn’t reincarnate, just aggregates of mind.

My feeling is that just as false beliefs get passed along with other religions, false beliefs get passed along with Tibetan Buddhism (a very dogmatic tradition).

God, source being, the creator, whatever name you like, provided each of us the opportunity to become souls who become wiser and happier according to how we choose, and some supposed enlightened masters are going to mislead millions of people into believing that they don’t have eternal souls.

As far as I’m concerned, such misguiding influence is on the same level as murder, because it is so spirit killing to tell people that they don’t have eternal souls. Angry  I know that I have one, and it sure makes a huge difference.

Instead of just sitting around trying to negate myself by seeing how I supposedly don’t  exist; I seek to better myself. You can’t avoid a lower realm after you die or unhappiness in this life by pretending that you don’t exist. What you need to do is deal with your state of mind as it exists.

One time my higher self enabled me to find out what it is like to be aware of 12 incarnations  at the same time. It wasn’t hard to be aware in such a way, because I was this large spirit being with a lot of capacity, yet I was still me, minus small and limited viewpoints. It was really cool and I didn’t feel self centered and egotistical.

I’ve been shown images which made the point that source being came up with a way so individual souls can be created.  I figure if the creative powers that be can use energy to create things such as stars, planets and biological life forms, they can come up with a way to create souls.

Tell people that they don’t have souls?  What’s next, tell a little kid that mommy is never coming home when she is just around the corner? Sad Shocked








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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #29 - Jun 5th, 2010 at 7:46pm
 
In a way, it doesn't matter, because if a person takes a practice and follows it with any sincerity or imagination, the truth will present itself, one way or another. A simple practice, like looking into a candle flame, very primitive, just looking at small fires. Looking out over water and noticing what reflects, what moves. Who cares what they say? At a certain point, it all becomes a mantra.
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