Conversation Board - Reincarnation and self

chrwe

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Reincarnation and self
May 26^th, 2010 at 1:02am

Hi dear people,

still I cant sleep through nights because questions go around in my head and fear fills my heart.

For all those who find this sad: it is! But its not something you can just stop - or I would.

I`ve got a question you may be able to answer. From what I see here, we are incarnations of a spirit being. After death, the spirit being leaves the body again. And then?

It seems from your posts that we incarnate again. Do we lose all our memories? It seems so - I certainly dont remember any past lives. How, if we lose our memories, are we still "ourselves"? Can we remember past lives after death? Other past lives? Do we HAVE to reincarnate, I dont see myself wanting to due to the loss of what I consider myself?

painfully yours
may the light be true

Chrwe

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b2

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #1 - May 26^th, 2010 at 8:52am

Consider what it would be like, to remember every moment of your present life, in full detail, as if every moment was represented by a 'different' person. Consider what it would be like to meet yourself, a version of yourself, perhaps a long time ago, even when you were a child.

Consider what it would be like to have a much greater understanding of your 'self' than you presently can comprehend. Consider that you may have more than one life such as this.

Consider that you may have known everyone else in your life in many other roles and places, in many other 'realities' than the one you are visualizing right now.

This, what you are imagining, as we talk about these possibilities, is only a small part of who you are.

It is not 'easy' to imagine your full potential. But this 'greater You' is taking care of you, and guiding you in ways that I cannot describe.

So, perhaps, imagine this greater You, and imagine how much this greater You loves you, all of you, because this greater You holds all of this together, for you, and only for you, because you matter, to this greater You...

And you, right now, hold a very important key to the happiness of all that is. Simply by existing, you matter. That is what I believe.

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usetawuz

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #2 - May 26^th, 2010 at 8:53am

chrwe wrote on May 26^th, 2010 at 1:02am:

Hi dear people,

still I cant sleep through nights because questions go around in my head and fear fills my heart.

For all those who find this sad: it is! But its not something you can just stop - or I would.

I`ve got a question you may be able to answer. From what I see here, we are incarnations of a spirit being. After death, the spirit being leaves the body again. And then?

It seems from your posts that we incarnate again. Do we lose all our memories? It seems so - I certainly dont remember any past lives. How, if we lose our memories, are we still "ourselves"? Can we remember past lives after death? Other past lives? Do we HAVE to reincarnate, I dont see myself wanting to due to the loss of what I consider myself?

painfully yours
may the light be true

Chrwe

My belief is that after this lifetime we return to the afterlife or heaven, call it what you will. While there we analyze our actions and reactions to the events from the just past life in an effort to grow in our ability to live a love-filled life and think and feel through love. Also, while there we are in our natural environment as souls of pure energy and love.

Each soul makes its choice to live its lives on earth or in spirit. If they are going to live a life on earth incarnate, then they plan with others, usually in a soul group, the primary activities that they will live through...some of which are immutable events already written for the earth to undergo, while others are planned between souls which may or may not occur based on free will. Free will trumps all while a soul is incarnate, and a soul can obviate its entire lifeplan by personal choice...whether guided by its incarnate desires or by its higher self...or to stick to the plan like glue. Free will in everything.

Beau has a great essay on this site describing the parallel between lives lived and actors on a stage...inspired by "all the world's a stage and the men and women players on it". In a nutshell, you, your own ego/identity are a character in the play of your life which you planned. Free will enables you to act extemporaneously, or you can act out the script. The other characters in your play are members of your soul group who have reviewed the script with you prior to this lifetime and you have each chosen characters to play and the method in which you will play those roles. Your soul is essentially the actor, while you, as an incarnate being with an ego/identity, are the specific role you chose to play while onstage. Death is simply the end of the character's role and your ego/identity has then left the stage.

With that, the actor, your soul, has played hundreds if not thousands of roles on earth. Just as an actor never forgets a role (s)he plays, a soul never forgets the ego/identities it has had while incarnate. Further, your soul is in touch with everything you can see, feel, taste, touch, and smell, together with senses you cannot conceive while incarnate. The soul remembers everything you thought, felt, and understood about your time on earth to a level your ego/identity cannot understand. So, no...the soul does not forget you as chrwe because you are your soul, you are the actor...the identity of chrwe is simply a role you played for this incarnation...this play of life.

As for whether you have to come back to another incarnate lifetime, it is your soul's choice...free will. You do not have to but I'm willing to bet you will. Look at it as on the job training...while in spirit you can study and learn all you want but until you are "acting" it out or undergoing a "live fire" exercise, how will you know if you really understand it? How will you actually do in front of a live audience?

As for remembering past lives and memories, I have made a catalog of prior lives through meditation and the akashic records. The feelings and thoughts evoked by those past lives while "looking" and examining those identities come through extremely clearly, and it is done through the perspective of the soul so I see everything the past identity sees as well as the incarnate being itself and everything surrounding it.

I hope this helps assuage some of your fear...I am sorry about the length of it all, but I wanted to give you my take on it...not that it is a certainty for anyone but me, but to me it is all.

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spooky2

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #3 - May 26^th, 2010 at 8:41pm

I don't believe in the common reincarnation theory, which says there is a soul within a body which, once the body dies, is set free and then incarnates into a new body and then has it's memories of the prior lives more or less disabled.

No, that doesn't make much sense to me. It starts with what the soul actually is. A thing with the properties of to be not a thing. Something eternal, yet with the ability to change. No, that doesn't make sense.

Instead of that rather semi-materialistic descriptions, I find it better to speak of a localised awareness, within the all-awareness, in difference to "soul". Such a localised awareness is nothing but this: The actual awareness. As part of this awareness there might be processes of identification, of what belongs to it and what not. Those processes are generating the image of a "person" or "soul", while these are just a special form, a narrowing form, of this localised awareness. The more this localised awareness identifies itself with certain things, the stronger is the drive to gravitate to them, and "reincarnate" into them.

Spooky

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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

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usetawuz

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #4 - May 26^th, 2010 at 10:49pm

spooky2 wrote on May 26^th, 2010 at 8:41pm:

I don't believe in the common reincarnation theory, which says there is a soul within a body which, once the body dies, is set free and then incarnates into a new body and then has it's memories of the prior lives more or less disabled.

No, that doesn't make much sense to me. It starts with what the soul actually is. A thing with the properties of to be not a thing. Something eternal, yet with the ability to change. No, that doesn't make sense.

Instead of that rather semi-materialistic descriptions, I find it better to speak of a localised awareness, within the all-awareness, in difference to "soul". Such a localised awareness is nothing but this: The actual awareness. As part of this awareness there might be processes of identification, of what belongs to it and what not. Those processes are generating the image of a "person" or "soul", while these are just a special form, a narrowing form, of this localised awareness. The more this localised awareness identifies itself with certain things, the stronger is the drive to gravitate to them, and "reincarnate" into them.

Spooky

Spooky, I don't understand what you are saying...could you please clarify it?

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chrwe

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #5 - May 26^th, 2010 at 11:24pm

I think he is more or less stating the classic buddhist approach, which in essence means we do NOT have a soul that survives death and there is no afterlife

that our soul is an illusion and there is only "the one"

which, to be honest, does not help since this would indeed mean the "we" that we think we are is irretrievably lost upon decay

an all-awareness of which I am only a part....great...why make these parts who are individual and want to stay so?

Being part of the "one"...fine...losing all "self" within the process...senseless and cruel imo

why live and love and learn if that is so?

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usetawuz

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #6 - May 27^th, 2010 at 8:02am

I see chrwe...and that doesn't work for me, either. The experiences I have had through meditation have been so absolutely filled with detail and emotion that I have no doubt that they were lives lived, experiences endured and feelings felt. At times I have nearly been overcome with the love I felt for another in that past life...even the mundane...buttoning up a cod-piece with rough hands and dirty fingernails...not a common memory nor practice in this day and time for a desk-bound lawyer...

I am not saying Spooky is wrong...our beliefs simply differ.

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betson

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #7 - May 27^th, 2010 at 9:03am

Hi

Bruce's description of the Disk-self and disk family fits between the all-that-is and the repeating individual:
A group or family of souls live within a higher Soul and get some degree of direction from this arrangement. Loving the 'memories' of 'previous' incarnations of yourself or a Disk-family member would be similar to loving members of your Earth family.

In the Afterlife the individuals are probes that seek experience in order to share their incarnated experiences so that all parts of the Disk can learn together. Later they can go out again as new individuals to get further understanding.

The Disk isn't all-there-is, but is attached to other Disks and that level is attached to even larger Disks much as the individuals we know as humans are a Disk, ad infinitum all the way up to the Godhead, we assume.

An individual incarnates where (s)he can do the most to generate an understanding of how love works in the universe and to generate the energy of love for the progress of the Disk. Once all members have developed a full-enough understanding the Disk-family leaves for higher heavens.

Love is never wasted or lost to oblivion. It is of the essence and becomes the essence.

Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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chrwe Full Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 150	Re: Reincarnation and self Reply #8 - May 27^th, 2010 at 10:37am I keep telling myself either I wont know about being dead (if there is oblivion) or it will be all for the best, even if I cant see how yet - that I will not feel bad about not being the "me" I know here - but it`s kinda hard to accept
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spooky2

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #9 - May 27^th, 2010 at 9:43pm

Hi there, I try to clarify.

Language can be deceiving. Often people accept explanations which, after a closer look, turn out to be mere word jugglings, and aren't really explaining anything.

For example, we can say "I have a body". Here on this board most people, I guess, mean by this their body is a tool, a means for us in the physical world. We then, though, have to consider that "I" and "body" are different things. Then we must consider as well, that "I" in this case can't mean the personality we are now, as the personality undoubtly has something to do with the body. To avoid confusion, this "I" therefore is called "soul".

Now, we can say as well "I have a soul". Here is an "I" which "has" a "soul". In this case "I" can't be identical with "soul", as then we would say "I am soul" (not "I am my soul", because then we would have again a separation of an owner, and something which is owned). So when we say "I have a soul" this "I" must be something different than the soul, and it's unclear what one exactly means then.

Furthermore, we must come to the term "soul" itself. If it is not "I", not "my body", what is it then? Usually it is said to be a sort of "essence"(which is unclear enough) and eternal. If something is eternal, it cannot change. Why? Think of something which changes over eons of time. Would you recognize it as the same? No. When it's not the same, it is something different. Therefore, it isn't eternal. This is the deceiving of the term "soul", that it suggests a solid something which doesn't change. From this all kinds of problems arise, as we now can't get this "soul" together with our life, where everything changes. And a soul as such an eternal (unchangeable) thing of course makes reincarnation senseless, because the soul doesn't change, but change, learning, is said to be the reason why reincarnation takes place. The uncritical use of the word "soul" can entrap one to the imagination, that somehow "inside" the body is a copy of it of some more durable and more flexible material together with our mind, feelings, memories, and after physical death we would be just that.

And so it happens then. Finding us somewhere in the belief system territories and are the same as we were. Some new folks hanging around there, but more or less all is the same.

Because of this, I prefer to speak simply of "I", or a localised awareness instead of "soul". It doesn't carry the above mentioned problems. From this, reincarnation is something which happens once such a localised awareness identifies itself with certain physical things, traits, habits. So to speak, it has become unpure. It attracts/produces what it identifies with. If this localised awareness won't identify with anything but just this awareness, what it is, it will at the same moment realise its root within the one awareness, and all things then cease to be separate things because they turn out to be like crystallization points within and through this one awareness.

Spooky

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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

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Bruce Moen

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #10 - May 31^st, 2010 at 10:45am

Chrwe,
Quote:

From what I see here, we are incarnations of a spirit being. After death, the spirit being leaves the body again. And then?

I would say that differently. I am not my body, my body is someing I inhabit in order to experience existence within physical reality. I would say we are spirit beings "wearing" a physical body. When that body dies we leave it. Where do go after that? What do we do there? I have my own opinions based on my own experiences. In my opinion we are eternal beings who have and will exist forever. In my opinion we incarnate Here and other places multiple times. But my opinions aren't what matters. What matters are your opinions and beliefs. And yours will only change when you, personally, take on the task of finding out the truth about these questions.

Quote:

Do we lose all our memories? It seems so - I certainly dont remember any past lives. How, if we lose our memories, are we still "ourselves"? Can we remember past lives after death? Other past lives?

What does it mean to "lose all our memories"? Surely you have had the experience of forgetting something that happened during your present lifetime and then remembering it again? While you weren't remembering it was that memory "lost"? Just because you are not remembering past lives now does that mean you never had any?
Quote:

Do we HAVE to reincarnate, I dont see myself wanting to due to the loss of what I consider myself?

Maybe the problem is in your definition of "what I consider myself." In my opinion nothing we do is ever lost. And in my opinion we are much more than our physical bodies.

Do we HAVE to reincarnate? Personally, I find incarnation in this reality a pleasant breaktime from eternity. Living here we can forget that we are eternal beings, we can take a vacation from eternity. I like vacations. I plan to incarnate here many more times to get the full treatment and effect. We are here in part to enjoy the ride, so I suggest you sit back, take a breath, and enjoy this place without worrying about what comes next. Worry won't change one tiny little iota of what actually comes after this physical lifetime. And, you can always decide to take on the task of exploring that next reality on your own to find out for yourself where we go and what we do next.

Bruce

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Ralph Buskey

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #11 - May 31^st, 2010 at 9:01pm

I am happy to believe in the concept of reincarnation. Plenty of research and limited experience has me convinved that we do indeed reincarnate on this world. It is even highly logical that God gave us this ability in the first place.

Sometimes I'm so fed up with this world that I feel like never coming back, at least if it's true that we have a choice. But then I pause and think that maybe when I get back all of my memories on the other side, I may have a different outlook than the one I have now. I'm not concerned as I don't have to decide now anyway. That's the good part of reincarnation. God loves us so much that we have free will to choose. So I'm making the most of this life here now and leaving the worry for the right time later after my earthly vacation is over.

Ralph

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Cricket

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #12 - Jun 1^st, 2010 at 9:18am

Mostly, what Bruce said.

I don't have memories, but I often "know" things...like how to fix something, or how something works inside when I haven't ever torn one of whatever it is apart, or the right approach to dealing with a difficult person or animal, in a way that feels different than intuition or just figuring it out. Sometimes it's John (my late husband) telling me something...that feels different too. It's like what Bruce said about remembering something you forgot...

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bird

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #13 - Jun 1^st, 2010 at 2:10pm

so, what is the ultimate goal? if as spirit beings we decide to continuously reincarnate to learn important life lessons on the physical plane, what are we hoping to ultimately accomplish? is there a point where we feel we have learned all there is and don't need to reincarnate again? and if so, what happens next?

bruce, you say that hanging out in the physical realm gives us a break from our eternal selves, but isn't it true that all previous incarnations of ourselves exist in the spirit realm simultaneously? i was under the impression that even if we decide to reincarnate, we don't actually "leave" the spirit realm but somehow release a part of collective self for the purpose of reincarnating. in other words, here i am on earth in this life, but all of me and my previous personalities reside in the spirit realm.

i think i just blew my mind. hahaha Cheesy

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betson

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Re: Reincarnation and self
Reply #14 - Jun 2^nd, 2010 at 3:47pm

Hi bird,

From what I believe I understand regarding your second question-- we can incarnate here as often as we can learn and care to. We also go to other realms where incarnating might not be so physical. In those places we might experience what it's like to have our consciousness interact with various fluids or gasses. Differing densities would also be affected by their chemical make-up, gravitational pressures, velocities etc.

Getting to know the universe takes alot of doing. I expect the same basic rules apply everywhere: do no harm and enjoy with gratitude.

Somewhere along the way we learn to blend our point of consciousness with another and then others. I suspect then we then become as gods, sparks of God merged into a single purpose.

Your second question I won't even attempt since you are comparing finite time and infinite time. Maybe Stephen Hawking could explain it! Cheesy

Enjoy your exploring!

Bets

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« Last Edit: Jun 3^rd, 2010 at 10:24am by betson »

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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