Well, for all we know, it could be part of their mission this time around to die young, and they would realize or be told that not long after dying.

Whether their departure was pre planned, or due to circumstances beyond control, as also happens, I feel they most likly may have felt that they missed out on a part of life. That said, they are also unlikely to dwell on it. In fact they could be in body now. Just in differant bodies than the ones they had  while experiencing what little time they had previously with you. Perhaps even moving on to a differant life so as to enable a better chance of learning or experiencing the lessons needed to continue spiritualy. Your lessons may be better learned through this lifetime. Part of the lesson may be learned through the loss of your siblings. Send them your love and open your heart to loves return.

Stone, you go too far in saying that a belief in pre-planned death means believing that everything is ordered.  You don't have to be at either end of that spectrum, you know, i.e. it doesn't have to be that everything is chaos and unplanned and uncontrolled or that everything is planned.  Just like in this life, some things can be planned by some entities and other things not planned by anyone.

A man attends a party in which he has way too much alcohol to drink. He's arrogant when he's told not to drive home and he does it anyway. He gets into his car and he drives. He's impaired by the alcohol and finds it difficult to stay in the lanes. He gets a text message and focuses on answering it and driving at the same time. The conclusion is a nasty wreck and a fatality or more.

Now by the assertions here, this death was planned before it occurred. For the balance of the world! 

It occurred because one single individual made too many mistakes. Yes, his soul will suffer for this and probably begin again or take a significant amount of time to forgive itself. But all he really had to do was make the right decisions.

A natural disaster takes thousands of lives. An airplane crashes into a building. A suicide bomber makes an impact. A child slips and falls off a cliff. A boy drowns after suffering hypothermia from flipping a canoe.

You're saying all this is pre-planned and trying to justify it as if its for the good of humanity? You're believing that life is a story book and its pages are written. That's so obnoxiously ridiculous. We control fate through our actions. Right here. Right now. Yes, it affects the whole world but we aren't on a track unknown to us but known to whats inside us. That is an argument to free will. A man doesn't murder another man because his soul was told it was for the greater balance. Geeze.

I'm not saying everything is chaos. I am saying life is both chaos and order. Chaos exists but it is countered through order. Chaos meaning that nothing in life is written. Random acts, even at times ordered through chaotic actions. That's the amazing and unique thing about it. The true power of order is through our conscious. There are few exceptions and they deal with the systems of the universe. Death is just part of the cycle. How and when is chaos' role whether through an individual or through nature.

Bottom line: **** happens, but things eventually work out in one way or another. Chaos and order. That's life.

Hi again Stone,

StoneColdTrue wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 6:42am:


No, not necessarily. The choice in the situation was planned. It could have gone one of two ways -either the drunken twit died or he faced up to a problem with alcohol and got his act together. As Robert Monroe found in his explorations, a lesson is repeated until learned. So this might be an explanation as to why you keep going around lives. You keep doing it until you get it right, and your level of understanding (or otherwise) determines how many times you have to go through that.

And I'll point out that its not for the balance of the world, it's for the balance of YOU in your path of existence. Various people agree to be teachers or helpers in this through lifetimes, including being BOTH victimisers or victims.

Quote:


Any decision whether right or wrong has a learning quotient built in. Sometimes we have to get it wrong to understand what the lesson is/was. The level of suffering is related directly to the level of understanding. If you finally get it, the suffering goes.
This happened to me a few years ago, with three years of suffering over a situation I found myself in (the details of which needn't concern us here). One day I had a 'lightbulb moment' and the suffering stopped as I finally understood what that situation had been all about.

Quote:


That's exactly what I'm suggesting, and not for the good of humanity in the first place, but for the experience of those souls involved. It's been written elsewhere by far more erudite and authoritative folks than I will ever be that there are no victims, only volunteers.


Quote:


No, I'm saying that we'll all have certain experiences that we WILL go through in life, because they are pre-life agreements. If you haven't made that agreement you won't experience it. After that come the probabilities which are somewhat subject to your own free will and as a result are malleable to a degree. As a result, a new avenue may open up in one life that will be explored more fully in another lifetime yet to come.
That doesn't look ridiculous to me, and who's being obnoxious using such a term?


Quote:


Lighten up and stop being so dismissive. A man may well murder someone because the victim may get to do the same thing in another lifetime. Both as a result have experienced both the actions of perpetrator and victim and have gained understanding. The point there is that you are as dead now as you're ever going to be. Very often (again according to more authoritative sources than me) hard lifetimes and dysfunctional relationships can be soul contracts to assist each person involved in growth, in exactly the same way that someone may choose a life blind, deaf or in a wheelchair.
And its also been pointed out (to give one example) that Stevie Wonder 'sees' things in people that others don't.
That may (and I stress may because I'm speculating) be a result of a pre life contract or decision to be a blind musician this time around.

Quote:


Yes, but I'll reiterate my earlier point. Chaos theory has its own set of principles. If the proverbial butterfly flapping its wings in Australia causes a snowstorm in Europe, that's because the two may be linked in some way. It's not chaos as such, just a series of synchronicities that operate outside of our current range of understanding.

Best wishes,
David.

Betson,

It is possible that I am misunderstanding what is being said, or that I'm being misunderstood. For that I do apologize.

My thoughts are never based directly from my ego. I will admit that I do struggle with my ego but the progress I have made from the past is pretty incredible. I use experience, education, research, and logic. Logic can't be dismissed. What I have come to accept in the past few months has created quite the battle with my ego, and logic derived from my increased consciousness dealt the mightiest blows.

What I am interpreting from the comments and what I find very difficult to accept is that each of our lives are already planned and programmed. I actually HATE this. I don't hate it for myself. I hate it for all of humanity. It takes away what I have found to be so miraculous and special about life. It's a flawed perception that puts the whole world on the pages of a narrative. It isn't unique. But then again so it would be written for me to think such.

I have a metaphor for this using modern technology, but i'll save it for now because I get the feeling there is a misinterpretation between the comments. Unless you do all believe and accept that our lives are programmed to be the way they are...which is both depressing and illogical. It takes away free will.

I am not in any way denying that there is a plan in life. I very much believe that, but I believe this plan is to be enacted completely through our free will and rise in consciousness. It shouldn't be written before my birth what I decide to do tomorrow. That should be completely left to me. That's all I'm arguing.

Detheridge,

Quote:


But what I'm saying is that this wreck and the outcome was not decided before the man's birth. It wasn't programmed to occur. It occurred directly from his decisions and with every choice there is a consequence. If he lived, then hopefully the lesson is learned. If he died, the lesson is a harsher one but he will get the opportunity to absolve it.

Quote:


Right. I believe this and have for a long time. I constantly make decisions consciously and attempt to predict the outcome. I have no regrets in this life. I am very capable of seeing how my mistakes benefitted me, or how a negative outcome impacted me into the person I have become. As of right now, there's nothing I would ever want to go back and change in my life because it would change who I am and what I have learned.

Quote:


Of course. This should by now be made more aware in people because it's a universal understanding that mistakes are only lessons to learn from and improve upon. I learn from not only my mistakes but also from observing the mistakes of others. Good use of the self conscious and the conscious. I went through a complete year of overwhelming depression, thoughts of death, and yearning to be free of my life. I have come to realize this was and had always been the weakness of my ego. I too experienced the "lightbulb" and life has been picking up ever since.

Quote:


Can't agree with you. It doesn't make sense that lessons are prewritten for different souls. That a higher source said "Ok, this guy will blow people up." That is basically saying that he had absolutely no control over his actions, because it was already decided beforehand. So why isn't that a lesson for everyone? Maybe because you and I CHOSE not to blow people up. An act which was created directly from the psychological impact of a violent theocracy in which the individual worships since birth. Not because it was decided for him. He made the decision, and he will learn from the consequences.

My understanding of your assertion as a metaphor: I create a robot and I program it to make an action. It makes the action and that action has a negative impact. Then I say the robot must learn from this mistake, despite that I had already decided its action.


Quote:


So we already agree we're going to murder someone? We agree beforehand to commit atrocities. Ugh. Just for our life experience? What in its right mind would agree to such a thing? It makes no sense.



Quote:


There is no fate but what we make.

Detheridge...that was remarkably well described and dovetails perfectly with my beliefs.

From a personal standpoint, I have recently worked through a past life wherein I was killed at 17 in a car accident.  The accident had a low probability in my life plan, however, it was a possibility, and at its fruition it forced a reshuffling of subsequent lifetimes...I still suffered death in a war (WWII instead of Viet Nam), which was one of the energetic experiences I chose to learn from...just a different war than initially expected.  Interesting that members of my family then are with me now, albeit in different capacities.

As for the initial question posited...I did feel gypped...I had alot of ego-centered anger at not being able to complete that life.  One of the tasks I just worked through was to allow the anger with that "character's portion of the actor/soul" to dissipate, to forgive and to realize that while I did not get to live that life to its planned conclusion, alot of what I wanted to do has been done between now and then (early 1900's), and it served my soul mates to deal with the emotion of loss and seeming abandonment. 

Once again, Detheridge, your comments so clearly depict the understanding I have as to how this "system" works...its logic and method make the most of every opportunity...providing a basic framework with immutable stage props and story plots and allowing we characters to act our part, either by the script or to extemporaneously express our own genius.  Also, reading about that 17 year old's family, how they dealt with his passing and the void he left upon his death and seeing it with the perspective of where we all are now just elevates this experience from one of tragedy to one of enlightenment, understanding and a tremendous sense of continuity...(Stone, each character/ego from each life is right there with you now...if you work at this stuff enough you can hear them talking to you).  What a great game!