Conversation Board - Drugs and spirituality?

Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #15 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 8:32am

spooky2 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2010 at 11:54pm:

Yes, what you say about memory is a way to interprete our existence; there are other ways of interpretation, but this is a personal thing. Everyone who thinks about the self, the world and their relationship is faced with those questions.

And I agree, as well as your discussion partner, with this "block" theory. Drugs can be quite effective in destroying the routine of the way we normally think, coming from normal practice and habit. All of a sudden we're look at it from a totally different angle. This makes us more open for walking new paths. But drugs do this brutally and mindlessly (when we're not prepared), so most trips remain weird. It's possible to have similar experiences without drugs. I once was about to have an out-of-body experience, my body was in my bed, I still felt it, but my mind somehow was standing inmidst the room and a tremendous fear suddenly came over me, the overwhelming thought that I'm totally alone. I quickly came back fully to my body. There are deep fears, and sometimes we are tested. Drugs can put one right into those fears, and that's a horror trip then. But they can be an eye-opener as well.

Spooky

Hi I have also had this terrible fear experience like some demon is looking at your body. I used to OBOOE a lot but found it made me depressed for some reason. I now use the Bruce Moon methods which is much easier on the psyche

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #16 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 1:41pm

Thank you Rebecca. I'm glad somebody thinks so.

Rebecca wrote on Mar 12^th, 2010 at 12:32am:

recoverer wrote on Mar 11^th, 2010 at 4:00pm:

I don't believe drug usage is a good way to approach spiritual growth. In some cases it might make a person more vunerable to spirit invasion.

Carlos Castaneda was proven to be a fraud, so even "if" he has some good things to say, he isn't proof that drug usage is a good thing.

Regarding shamans, don't assume that they are all connected to good spirits. John Mack writes about South African shaman Credo Mutwah in one of his books, and Credo said that a number of shamans in South Africa (and perhaps beyond) are controlled by unfriendly beings.

Notice how Castneda doesn't speak about growing in love.

Recoverer, you are always so eloquent in your responses.

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StoneColdTrue

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #17 - Mar 14^th, 2010 at 10:45pm

spooky2 wrote on Mar 13^th, 2010 at 11:54pm:

Yes, what you say about memory is a way to interprete our existence; there are other ways of interpretation, but this is a personal thing. Everyone who thinks about the self, the world and their relationship is faced with those questions.

And I agree, as well as your discussion partner, with this "block" theory. Drugs can be quite effective in destroying the routine of the way we normally think, coming from normal practice and habit. All of a sudden we're look at it from a totally different angle. This makes us more open for walking new paths. But drugs do this brutally and mindlessly (when we're not prepared), so most trips remain weird. It's possible to have similar experiences without drugs. I once was about to have an out-of-body experience, my body was in my bed, I still felt it, but my mind somehow was standing inmidst the room and a tremendous fear suddenly came over me, the overwhelming thought that I'm totally alone. I quickly came back fully to my body. There are deep fears, and sometimes we are tested. Drugs can put one right into those fears, and that's a horror trip then. But they can be an eye-opener as well.

Spooky

Right. I was pretty uncomfortable both times and felt lonely and afraid. I don't care to feel like that again.

One thing I've come to understand from talking with several people now is that a large difference about the block memory thing, is that apparently LSD will allow the person to carry those realizations and understandings back. Like the blocks don't return. Multiple people have understood this and my friend had a lot of insight and understanding on the afterlife and aspects of reincarnation. He said that he understood we all knew each other in a past life and always will (I didn't start becoming friends with him until 2008, but we also attended elementary school together and have been around each other here and there up until now being friends) and that people will continue to reincarnate until their soul has evolved to the point of understanding love and life before standing before the creator.

We shared both of our beliefs on the afterlife and it wasn't so different. He wasn't sure about the concept of people being there to guide you upon death and was very happy to hear me tell him that was something I've found to be understood among many.

Despite what I have been told of dropping acid, I really don't think it's something I ever want to do. I honestly want to find my answers without the use of drugs.

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spooky2

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #18 - Mar 15^th, 2010 at 11:33pm

I, too, haven't taken LSD. Two friends of mine told me independently of their experiences with it. Both said they could communicate through telepathy. Both said they had physical abilities beyond physical laws. About the deeper insights you told of, yes, it might be. But it can happen that people become obsessed by these insights and frustrated, because they find themselves unable to continue on this level of mind when they're sober. Some then take it regularly, and start to behave very strange, and no one understands what they're talking about anymore.

Spooky

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Berserk2

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #19 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 12:41am

When I was a college sophomore, I remember my first encounter with a classmate who regularly took LSD. I was secretly envious of his adventures in consciousness. So imagine my dismay when he had to be committed to a psychiatric ward by the end of the semester. In grad school, I had a friend who regularly smoked weed. Again, I was secretly envious of his mellow ecstasy as he got high. But I met him 10 years later and his memory ws shot to the point of apparent borderline dementia. Of course, many drug users are not that adversely affected, but I feel compelled by the destructive impact I've witnessed to urge caution.

Don

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StoneColdTrue

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #20 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 2:19am

The key to anything is respect and moderation. Abuse and misuse will 9/10 times lead to problems. It's like anything else. Though I do view alcohol as more of a destructive force, I found no qualms limiting it to a weekend thing. My father and the majority of my friends are abusers and it is very easy for me to see how negatively it affects them. That urge of caution should be there for every substance. It's just teetering in gluttony and can bring no good.

Marijuana I will admit though was something I used to partake in daily but I never felt it was abuse. I will however admit that I misused it during points that were unnecessary. I felt like it was a very healing drug which worked as a great crutch if I used it wisely. But there it is. The whole key is moderation and respect for both the substance and yourself. I'm of course speaking specifically about less harmful substances.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #21 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 2:41am

StoneColdTrue wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 2:19am:

The key to anything is respect and moderation. Abuse and misuse will 9/10 times lead to problems. It's like anything else. Though I do view alcohol as more of a destructive force, I found no qualms limiting it to a weekend thing. My father and the majority of my friends are abusers and it is very easy for me to see how negatively it affects them. That urge of caution should be there for every substance. It's just teetering in gluttony and can bring no good.

Marijuana I will admit though was something I used to partake in daily but I never felt it was abuse. I will however admit that I misused it during points that were unnecessary. I felt like it was a very healing drug which worked as a great crutch if I used it wisely. But there it is. The whole key is moderation and respect for both the substance and yourself. I'm of course speaking specifically about less harmful substances.

I have tried acid many years back and the trip was pleasant and very similar to the state of ecstasy I used to go into when I was in the very hight state brought on by my bipolar disorder in the manic state. What people don't realize that extreme mania opened the psychic world more than any drug.

I had a near death experienced due to attempted suicide and that is the source of most of my knowledge of the life beyond death

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Alan McDougall

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StoneColdTrue

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #22 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 6:02am

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 2:41am:

StoneColdTrue wrote on Mar 16^th, 2010 at 2:19am:

The key to anything is respect and moderation. Abuse and misuse will 9/10 times lead to problems. It's like anything else. Though I do view alcohol as more of a destructive force, I found no qualms limiting it to a weekend thing. My father and the majority of my friends are abusers and it is very easy for me to see how negatively it affects them. That urge of caution should be there for every substance. It's just teetering in gluttony and can bring no good.

Marijuana I will admit though was something I used to partake in daily but I never felt it was abuse. I will however admit that I misused it during points that were unnecessary. I felt like it was a very healing drug which worked as a great crutch if I used it wisely. But there it is. The whole key is moderation and respect for both the substance and yourself. I'm of course speaking specifically about less harmful substances.

I have tried acid many years back and the trip was pleasant and very similar to the state of ecstasy I used to go into when I was in the very hight state brought on by my bipolar disorder in the manic state. What people don't realize that extreme mania opened the psychic world more than any drug.

I had a near death experienced due to attempted suicide and that is the source of most of my knowledge of the life beyond death

Hm. That's pretty interesting. I'm glad to know you found a new respect for life. I was diagnosed with depression so perhaps it plays a part in my trip experiences.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #23 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 6:22am

An excerpt of my struggle with manic depression

Note; The reason I posted this article was because so called mad people were considered holy both in biblical Scripture and in primitive peoples society they are called the wise man.Mania opens your mind to many wonderer's of the psychic and metaphysical paranormal world.One the doorway is opened it never closes again , if great men who were bipolar had been medicated we might have being living in a much poorer world

Please note that what I am describing is not the mild beneficial hypo mania of high performing persons of history who also had this disorder. This mild form of mania existed in a large number of great and creative persons. It was there that one saw the enormous energy of Winston Churchill , Ludwig Van Beethoven, William Blake, Napoleon Bonaparte,, Charles Dickens, T.S. Elliot, Robert Frost, Sigmund Freud, Ernest Hemingway, Abraham Lincoln, Jack London, Robert Co well, Michelangelo,, Mozart, Isaac Newton, Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Vincent Van Gogh, King David, King Saul. To name a very few of the countless great personalities that suffered in different degrees from a milder form of this disorder.

I begin to see visions, hallucinate, sometimes-beautiful visions of other worlds, universes, heaven and see and perceive colors that do not exist on this earth. I feel I was in constant communication every being in existence as I was truly God incarnate. I was convinced I was god. I feel that I am the incarnation of the sublime, wanting to remain in this state forever.

I continue to have vivid visions and dreams, so real that I still do not know if I was communicating with some higher intelligence. I can see the future flashing before my eyes in rapid non-stop visions. My eyes dart back and forth, back and forth, become red, and inflamed and terrifying to look into.

I am in another reality beyond space and time an alarming altered state of consciousness. No loner feeling glorious, I am becoming more and scared, terrified of this uncontrollable state and everything starts to go out of contra.

My body begins to die from the unrelenting drain off energy on it by this completely abnormal state of affairs. I became paranoid fearful, horrified, terrified desperate to escape the horror that has become

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« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2010 at 7:35am by Alan McDougall »

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #24 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 8:26am

Maybe so, Alan, and I do agree with your point. It is important to note, however, that this results in great difficulties at times for friends, families and partners of those who are interacting with them. For people around them, who are not strong of mind, it can be an overwhelming and sometimes extremely negative experience, no matter what the value of the benefits gained along the way. It is important for all of us to keep our perspectives in balance, no matter who we are, and to recognize the contributions of the 'smallest' among us, as well as the 'greatest'. This is not an easy balance to maintain at times, but worth the effort.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #25 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 1:05pm

Quote:

Maybe so, Alan, and I do agree with your point. It is important to note, however, that this results in great difficulties at times for friends, families and partners of those who are interacting with them. For people around them, who are not strong of mind, it can be an overwhelming and sometimes extremely negative experience, no matter what the value of the benefits gained along the way. It is important for all of us to keep our perspectives in balance, no matter who we are, and to recognize the contributions of the 'smallest' among us, as well as the 'greatest'. This is not an easy balance to maintain at times, but worth the effort.

Thanks for the response, now that I am balanced much of my psychic abilities have been lost

Blessings and light

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #26 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 9:26pm

I can see how that might be a little troubling to you, if you feel that way, Alan. I simply felt it was important to make a mention that anyone who is thinking about going off of any important medication so that they might be closer to their own spirituality...or they might have more powers in some way...it's probably something to think about, not for people to choose to do indiscriminately. I was just worrying around that particular thought is all I meant, friend, because I have met some people who sometimes go waaaaaaaay out there, and it takes them a long time to reel themselves back, not that they really want to, once they get waaaaaaay out there.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #27 - Mar 16^th, 2010 at 11:51pm

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I can see how that might be a little troubling to you, if you feel that way, Alan. I simply felt it was important to make a mention that anyone who is thinking about going off of any important medication so that they might be closer to their own spirituality...or they might have more powers in some way...it's probably something to think about, not for people to choose to do indiscriminately. I was just worrying around that particular thought is all I meant, friend, because I have met some people who sometimes go waaaaaaaay out there, and it takes them a long time to reel themselves back, not that they really want to, once they get waaaaaaay out there.

You are absolutely right the whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy out state while it can be wonderful it can be horrifying. I am better off in the present well balanced state. And I have a bonus of not losing all my gifts

Blessings and Light

Alan

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Re: Drugs and spirituality?
Reply #28 - Mar 17^th, 2010 at 9:49am

Hm. That's pretty interesting. I'm glad to know you found a new respect for life. I was diagnosed with depression so perhaps it plays a part in my trip experiences.

I would guess that you are right. A bunch of friends and I, back in our college days, used to do quite a bit of acid, and none of us every had any issues with it. We used it both for play and for serious exploration. I hadn't thought about it before, but the people outside our little group that we knew, that *did* have issues, often also had issues with depression and/or anxiety.

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