Conversation Board - The Watseka Wonder

hawkeye

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #15 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 2:29pm

Oh yes. A battle of truths. Neither side to be willing to except the others opinions, or beliefs. We all will be finding the "facts" sooner than we might like. But this I would like to say is a guarantee..both will have parts of it right... some of it wrong,.. and, will end up realising that their personal dogmatic beliefs just didn't matter in the long run.

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hawkeye

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #16 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 2:46pm

Wondering why possession is "evil"? (Would that have made RMC excepting of evil as she allowed others non phyical to enter into her phyical body?) It seems that there is this book called the Bible that says that Moses heard voices also. He must have been possessed to. He thought he heard the words of God! Mind you so did that lady a few years back who drown her three kids in a tub. She heard God also. Now I am wondering about those to have had this Lord or the Holy Spirit within them. Isn't that a possession also? Must be more of that Christian Beliefs Ghetto stuff.

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usetawuz Senior Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 397 ne fla Gender:	Re: The Watseka Wonder Reply #17 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 3:28pm DocM wrote on Mar 4^th, 2010 at 12:19pm: This may not be pleasing to what some want to hear, but it is in no way meant to be an insult to anyone's belief system: Matthew No insult at all, Matthew and I appreciate your analysis. It is certainly thought-provoking and I agree with you for the most part.
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recoverer

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #18 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 4:01pm

Hawkeye:

Surely you know there is a difference between having your energy connected with a being of benevolent intent and a being of negative intent.

I've experienced the presence of light based beings, and, "yahoo!"

I've also experienced the presence of beings with negative intent and only a really confused person would consider this to be a good thing.

There are beings who have really bad intentions.

hawkeye wrote on Mar 4^th, 2010 at 2:46pm:

Wondering why possession is "evil"? (Would that have made RMC excepting of evil as she allowed others non phyical to enter into her phyical body?) It seems that there is this book called the Bible that says that Moses heard voices also. He must have been possessed to. He thought he heard the words of God! Mind you so did that lady a few years back who drown her three kids in a tub. She heard God also. Now I am wondering about those to have had this Lord or the Holy Spirit within them. Isn't that a possession also? Must be more of that Christian Beliefs Ghetto stuff.

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Berserk2

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #19 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 4:55pm

heisenberg: "I don't know about reincarnation, (I'm keeping an open mind on it) but lets have a level playing field here. If apparently 'new age' beliefs are to be scrutinized by 'the big bad world of scientific research' as Don puts it then should'nt all beliefs, including Christianity, be measured by the same yardstick ? Why should one belief have 'special' status over another ?"
______________________________________

Precisely. I routinely wake up, immersed in this thought: suppose some of my key Christian beliefs were misguided. What then would have to be true instead and how could I discover this? But most posters here uncritically pontificate New Age cliches without having earned their reincarnational positions. Their reading is limited to Ghetto-sanctioned authors like Brian Weiss who are rightly ignored in the real world of honest and open interdisciplinary inquiry. In short, they fall far short of the high standard established by Christian biblical scholarship. Christians gladly submit their beliefs to the best and brightest agnostic and atheistic minds, despite their anti-paranormal agendas. By contrast, though biblically illerate, many New Agers here comically sit in judgment on a lofty New Age perch about issues they are not qualified to address.

My intention is not to convert. Most posters here are not open enough to be reshaped by exciting ideas outside the New Age Ghetto. My goal is to try to elevatethe level of debate, so that it is at last balanced and multi-faceted enough to force reincarnationists to reexamine their presuppostional frameworks and thus earn their positions. Unfortunately, a blunt, in your face style is needed to irritate posters enough to awaken them to the daunting task of honest and open inquiry. I'm not here to be liked! Stay tuned.

Don

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« Last Edit: Mar 4^th, 2010 at 8:19pm by Berserk2 »

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heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: The Watseka Wonder Reply #20 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 5:14pm Don- as I wrote before I appreciate your quest for veracity but would'nt you agree that religions are essentially faith driven not science driven ?
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hawkeye

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #21 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 5:38pm

recoverer, Of course I see the difference between benevolent intent and negative intent. When it comes to hearing voices and being possessed what make one mans interpretation of the expearence better than another's? If hearing Gods voice in your head makes you kill, or makes you manifest a tablet of Christianity's golden rules, your still hearing voices. You still believe it to be Gods voice. Are you to ignore the word of God, or follow it, blindly and full of faith into a area of the afterlife possibly no better than someone else's hell, or to do things perhaps perceived as evil to others? Who decides if this word is Gods or not? Surely only the one who hears his voice can deside.
I believe it evil to attempt to entrap others in a belief system territory. That includes all of them. From Christianity to the "Ghetto". Entrapping someone into a BST, no matter what it is, is wrong. I won't stand back and let it happen without recourse, no matter what its called. Try a trip to F26 and see how hard it can be sometime to move some of these people towards God and love. Many are so stuck in a BST, so stuck on one religious belief or doctrine, that they close off love because of their fear of God and retribution. (hell) For me I see parts of Christianity as good, some evil. Same as what Don calls the New Age Ghetto...some good, some evil. But to say one of them is better or good, and the other wrong or evil...I dont think so.

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usetawuz

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #22 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 5:48pm

So, Don, from your standpoint we should earn our right to discuss our beliefs under the auspices of your christian biblical scholarship framework?

I see this as less a New Age v. Christianity issue and more of a "different strokes" matter. Your motivation seems more founded on "showing up those ignorant new agers" than on potentially leading them to the promised land and your fount of knowledge. Wielding a cudgel to get people to raise the level of discussion also seems out of character for one following the Light of Christ...and to quote one of my favorite Christians..."what would Jesus do?"

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recoverer

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #23 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 7:51pm

Hawkeye:

I also believe it is wrong to get people involved with belief systems.

Part of the reason this world has so many problems is because there are a bunch of people who aren't thinking for themselves, they latch onto beliefs that are created by other people.

Perhaps people who find their way out of such traps are people who have souls that have learned not to do so.

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Berserk2

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #24 - Mar 4^th, 2010 at 8:32pm

usetawuz,

Uncritical minds always impute unworthy motives to avoid the hard task of critical thinking that begins with the searching questions: What if I'm wrong? How could I ever discover that? You really must learn to read. That includes not only posts like mine, but deep books that make cases that are contrary to your own perspectives. My post said nothing about employing a Christian stance as the foundation for this thread. That's your baggage. My post merely recognizes that Christian leaders, unlike many New Agers, are eager to learn challenging perspectives from worthy intellectual adversaries.

Don

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betson

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #25 - Mar 5^th, 2010 at 1:09am

Hi

How is the concept of reincarnation refuted by Mary's being available for earthly visits after her own passing? Lurancy never claimed she was Mary until she (LV) got so shattered and rundown from being possessed by several entities and by being' medicated' and 'treated' with such cruel methods that she may have tried to escape who she had been.

On another note, I think words are very important and carry much energy, which can be either auspicious or dangerous. What a poor innocent babe to be named Lurancy! So much like lunacy. Her mother's name Lurinda isn't so positive either--lurid? I can't find any lur... words that have a positive connotation: lurk, lure, lurch.
Scarey, but sound may have metaphysical connotations.

There's much to pity in this story.

Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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goobygirl

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #26 - Mar 5^th, 2010 at 4:13am

Don,

Your disdain for other viewpoints is disappointing and small-minded. All I really see from you is someone pontificating from their bully pulpit and putting people's ideas down. You have done this to me and my posts several times. I don't care if you want to be liked or not either. But I don't take everything I read to be the truth. If it comes from the Bible, I definitely dispute it unless it is read in the proper context.

My beliefs come from my own experiences.

I, for one, do not need to be schooled nor slapped on the knuckles with your abrasiveness, so feel free to ignore all future posts of mine in the future. If I want to experience true "meanness" as exhibited by the holier than thou christian community, I'll go back to church, thank you.

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goobygirl

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #27 - Mar 5^th, 2010 at 5:18am

I had more that I posted about Science of Spirituality, but the edit didn't take. Here's an excerpt that I found appropriate:

"There is a big difference between belief and faith through experience. Belief is something that we read about, or something our parents or friends have told us. Belief is something that we think will happen, whereas an experience is what really does happen. Experience solidifies our belief and then turns it into faith. This happens when we experience the truth for ourselves. Belief plus experience is faith, but belief itself could be blind if it is merely something that someone else has said."

Sant Rajinder Singh
Author: Inner and Outer Peace Through Meditation, and many other Science of Spirituality books

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hawkeye

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #28 - Mar 5^th, 2010 at 1:55pm

Don, One thing you said in an earlier post...
" My intention is not to convert. Many posters here are not open enough to be reshaped"......etc. Convert/reshape?
Well thanks Don, but no thanks. I dont need a "reshaping" into your ideals of what a person should be, act, or believe. To me it is obvious that your strong Christian, holier and more knowledgeable than thou beliefs shape how you relate to others. Don, your turning me off of Christianity. Totally. Its all fine to attempt to evoke an emotional response from someone in an effort to help or to release them from being stuck with fixed ideas, but it would seem your efforts are in belittling others in an attempt to make your beliefs and opinion seem more trueful or closer to what you believe your God to desire. I personally find you extremely egotistical. I almost feel sorry for you. (Perhaps your acting out because of a weakness in an other area that I can help you with? Would you like me to help reshape the way you think or believe?) That said..I read your posts and respond because you have some worthwhile things to say. I dont agree with what seems to be these fundamentalist Christian beliefs, but I am open enough to listen to them. They are worthy of expressing. My God tells me to except the way you are, and to love you the way you are. Which I do. My God doesn't tell me to try to reshape you in my own form or personal beliefs.
Again no "reshaping" for me thanks..I dont want to be anything like you. I am fine just the way I am. My belief in the afterlife is as good or better than yours, in my opinion.
I am reminded of a show I used to watch. Faulty Towers. They had a waiter that always used to say" I learned my English from a book". Funny show. It resonates to me showing about some peoples beliefs. They learn them from books. What a shame.

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Rondele

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Re: The Watseka Wonder
Reply #29 - Mar 5^th, 2010 at 2:31pm

Don-

I was inspired by reading Alan's thread to do a remote viewing on you.

This was last evening, approx 7pm your time. I found you in what looked like a study. I got the impression it was in a church but not sure.

You were standing at a podium, giving what seemed like a sermon, and I sensed that others were in the room listening to you.

The walls of the study were lined with pictures of Christian evangelists. One in particular I'm almost sure was Jimmy Swaggart and I saw what looked like an autograph from him to you!

You seemed to have an angry look on your face, and at times you pounded on the podium to drive home a point. The whole atmosphere in the room was heavy with anger, as if you were castigating people for not living up to the way of life and beliefs you insisted that they comply with.

To be honest, the whole thing was so oppressive that I could not stay long. Whimpering sounds as if they were coming from small children as you threatened them with eternal damnation was just too much for me to bear.

I'm sorry if I got it wrong but it was so real that I feel compelled to share it here.

R

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