Conversation Board - Time paradox and free will

detheridge

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Time paradox and free will
Feb 25^th, 2010 at 6:55am

Hi folks,
It occurred to me the other day that we may be living in a time paradox -which is the best way I can think of describing it. In Bob Monroe's books he describes meeting his INSPEC who acted as a guide to him in his explorations is OOBEs and other dimensions of being. Much later on he discovers that his INSPEC guide is actually himself in the future.
So if this is true (and I have no reason to believe that it isn't) and our 'higher selves' or 'Total I theres' are just us in the future, then does that mean that we've already 'made it' -achieved realisation and joining with the other parts of our disk in the future? As all time is one out there (wherever there is), then does that mean that we ultimately have no freewill because what's going to happen has already happened? Or do our choices affect the rate of progress we make in this path?

Any comments gratefully received, otherwise I'l have to start watching Star Trek more often for ideas Grin

Best wishes,
David.

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betson

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #1 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 8:53am

Hi David,

What you're saying sounds like we are the aspects left behind from a previous life? That the former and fuller us lived on Earth previously?

Hmm-mm, well, that's a blow to the old ego. Still, the former us could still have had free will though, right?

Bets

Cheesy

David, check out our posting times-- I hope I didn't reverse your idea like I did your post time.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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usetawuz

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #2 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 10:04am

I think I get it...and to push the envelope further...there is some dimensional talk about everything in our third dimension has already happened...all time as we know it has already happened in an instant. All that is left is to fill in the gaps of our knowledge of the events through which we have already lived. And then experience alternative events and "roads not taken" through the "holo-deck", for you trekkies.

No answers, but easily fogged issues...

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heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: Time paradox and free will Reply #3 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 12:07pm ... so all possible futures are 'out there' and free-will involves choosing to experience the one we want ? So there are futures out there where we blow up the planet and others where we live in harmony with eachother ?
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usetawuz

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #4 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 12:55pm

heisenberg69 wrote on Feb 25^th, 2010 at 12:07pm:

... so all possible futures are 'out there' and free-will involves choosing to experience the one we want ? So there are futures out there where we blow up the planet and others where we live in harmony with eachother ?

Yup...and with enlightenment comes the ability to swing between each dimensional possibility and experience their differences. The possibilities are endless...

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heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: Time paradox and free will Reply #5 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 1:04pm ......cool !
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detheridge

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #6 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 2:17pm

betson wrote on Feb 25^th, 2010 at 8:53am:

Hi David,

What you're saying sounds like we are the aspects left behind from a previous life? That the former and fuller us lived on Earth previously?

Hmm-mm, well, that's a blow to the old ego. Still, the former us could still have had free will though, right?

Bets

Hi Bets,
interesting idea but I don't think that's what I meant Sad

If all time is one (IF?) then our I there's are complete in the future. But then they can come back to help us work through stuff because they know what we went through while we are going through it. (It's doing my head in trying to get a handle on temporal paradoxes Shocked

) But then we don't know what we're about to go through although our future selves do and that's why they come back to assist.
Am I making any sense here?

I don't think we're necessarily aspects left behind from a previous life, but an earlier version of the complete I there (the caterpillar before the butterfly, if that's a suitable analogy?).
In linear time, the I-there's are in the far future, we're here, and our past lives are in the past. Outside of ELS, aall time is one, so everything's happening now. But does this mean that we alter our path by freewill, or is it already preordained that we'll make one particular decision anyway.
Again to quote Star Trek (who were quoting it from somewhere else presumably) for every action there are an infinte number of possibilities, and our choices determine which one we experience. So does that imply that all possible options are all occurring at the same time and that other parts of ourselves are experiencing them?
So somewhere in the universe Hitler won world war 2, America's still a British colony Tongue

and I'm still married to my first wife! Cry

Best wishes,
David.

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Vicky

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #7 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 2:27pm

Yes, when all else fails, turn to Star Trek. Replicators, the ability to teleport...life is good.

I too look at the analogy of my higher, total self as my "future" self, and I do that because it is the easiest way that I can understand and use it's Guidance in guiding me along my path in the here and now. I use that analogy so that I can and do feel like I have total free will in the here and now, projecting my thoughts to my "future" self and ask questions, ask for guidance, and keep my present-day self's mind on the track of my choosing, as if I have a "me" out there who has already tackled this hard road and already knows the best course of action for me, and that this person will guide me if I ask for it. But that the decision is mine to make.

I don't think of it as we have no free will and that everything is already planned and set out and we're just going along for the ride. I do believe we always have the free will choice and freedom to use our consciousness to do, think, and feel what we want to experience.

But I also believe, in a way, the future is already planned out for the most part. It is a paradox, and it is hard to explain how I believe this. But it's kind of like this...who we are and what we have come here to accomplish in this life is what we free-will planned before coming here. And our higher self knows this and is there to guide us along that path and plan. As we are living here, we are not sure what we want, how to make it happen, and we change our minds, etc. But the plan is still in existence. We may not even accomplish all of that plan, for one reason or another.

And as we live our lives, we also have free-will in the here and now, and in some ways our choices we make here may seem to defer the free-will plan we chose to accomplish before we got here.

In essense, I believe we always have the ability to use free will in the moment. I also believe we are likely to make the choices we will make, no matter what. Like, if given the chance to live this life over again, we will likely make pretty much the same choices and take the same courses in life. It may be that we learn a lesson with this person or that person, but the point is the lesson, not who we learn it with. Know what I mean?

Vicky

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usetawuz Senior Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 397 ne fla Gender:	Re: Time paradox and free will Reply #8 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 3:38pm Well stated, Vicki, and it resonates nicely. I still like a friend's theory that each decision we make spurs another reality that lives on, only we are not conscious of it...I just cannot seem to even get my mind around the difficulties, much less try to resolve them. heisenberg...very cool!
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I Am Dude

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #9 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 4:13pm

David

I don't know if you've read any of Jane Roberts/Seth's work, but similar to Monroe, Seth claims to be a future version of Roberts who has evolved far beyond our current system of consciousness. Seth even had an even future version of himself which, if you believe it, would be channelled first through Seth and then through Roberts.

Anyway, I likewise don't see any good reason why this couldn't be the case.

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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.

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recoverer

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #10 - Feb 25^th, 2010 at 4:18pm

I don't believe that the principle of no time negates the principle of free will. It is more of a matter of whether we view the decisions our soul makes one at a time or all at once.

There have been numerous times throughout my life where it was clear that I had a choice. I could respond to circumstance in either a negative or positive way.

The key is to realize that we can be influenced by our psychological conditioning and find a way to not allow it to do so.

I figure that one of the reasons we incarnate into this World is so we can learn to make use of our creative awareness in a wise and loving way.

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spooky2

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #11 - Feb 27^th, 2010 at 10:48pm

I have another suggestion: Free will (a sort of) is only possible without the common linear time, as linear time (or our image of it) means that every moment is part of a chain of moments, influenced by the former moment. There's no space for free will, as to be free it needs to be independent of the former moments/history.
Now, if those moments were not connected to each other within a cause-effect chain, only then there could be a free will. But then, "free" would not mean much anymore, as in this case there would be no past and no future. Just this moment.

I don't think time paradoxa can ever be solved by mankind.

Spooky

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usetawuz

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #12 - Feb 28^th, 2010 at 12:17am

spooky2 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2010 at 10:48pm:

I have another suggestion: Free will (a sort of) is only possible without the common linear time, as linear time (or our image of it) means that every moment is part of a chain of moments, influenced by the former moment. There's no space for free will, as to be free it needs to be independent of the former moments/history.
Now, if those moments were not connected to each other within a cause-effect chain, only then there could be a free will. But then, "free" would not mean much anymore, as in this case there would be no past and no future. Just this moment.

I don't think time paradoxa can ever be solved by mankind.

Spooky

I do not know about a resolution of time paradoxia being solved by us, rather we need to know how it works in order to use it properly. With that said, I think that it is possible to act freely without basing that action on the action just taken or the time just passed.

Because my son just earned a disciplining moment, does not mean that my daughter, also recalcitrant, is going to receive the same level of discipline. We choose where and when to exercise the appropriate response for the actions noted. One is 10 years old the other 16...their actions, their sex and their ages each require different methods of treatment. And while it may be a chain of moments, I do not see it as linear time dependent, nor does it follow that one action requires a strict and uniform response to the exclusion of free will.

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recoverer

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Re: Time paradox and free will
Reply #13 - Feb 28^th, 2010 at 2:29pm

Often what our experience tells us is better than what our intellect tells us.

Try this, when you have occasions to make some sort of ethical/moral decision, listen to what your heart tells you, and then ask yourself if you simply responded according to what a chain of cause and effect required, or if listening to your heart provided you with freedom beyond such a chain.

Our bodies abide in time, but our souls abide beyond time. If we listen to our heart, we listen to our soul.

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usetawuz Senior Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 397 ne fla Gender:	Re: Time paradox and free will Reply #14 - Feb 28^th, 2010 at 3:53pm recoverer wrote on Feb 28^th, 2010 at 2:29pm: Our bodies abide in time, but our souls abide beyond time. If we listen to our heart, we listen to our soul. I like that alot...
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