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Hitler as Helper? (Read 8587 times)
b2
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Hitler as Helper?
Feb 3rd, 2010 at 10:32pm
 
Something struck me today. Maybe someone can tell me what they think of this. Okay, what if Hitler really was the worst person ever, the most horrible person in the history of the human race. What if there was never a more 'evil' person than him - I mean it - wrap it all up in the name of Hitler if you must - it is just representative of the worst of the worst, the cruelest, most miserable person who ever lived. Well, what if this Hitler went and had a life review and understood exactly how horrible he was. Really, finally understood, because he had this amazingly comprehensive life review, in which he finally understood his place in the world, exactly how he got there, who helped bring him to this point, where he went 'wrong', how he made things worse, etc. etc., along with every 'golden' moment of his life, in which he may have had a moment of kindness, happiness, sadness, laughter, everything that makes up the human experience, everything that happens that we forget along the way. Okay, he's had his life review.

Just what is to prevent him from being a 'helper' with his newfound understanding? What really are his 'limits' if he truly understands 'life' and 'love' in ways which are beyond even what we know here?

Hmmmmn?
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DocM
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #1 - Feb 3rd, 2010 at 11:13pm
 
Interesting, B2,

My thoughts - the life review is for loving souls. Most NDEs and other reports of the afterlife suggest that those who chose a path away from God (toward hate), found themselves in darkness when they crossed over, and then gravitated toward others of their similar inclinations.  A life review is an internal review meant for a sensitive soul to reflect, and learn.  In my opinion, you have to have a certain amount of love and good intentions to have this review occur.

So, assuming a person like Hitler was unrepentant in his expression of hate toward God and other people, it is unlikely that he would rise out of his own personal hell anytime soon - though its not for anyone to know with certainty.  Swedenborg and others have shown that all of us end up dropping our masks of civility after death and pursuing our truest deepest love, be it noble or ignoble. 

All that said, it is an oversimplification to make Hitler the man the embodiment of all evil.  I am Jewish, and yet I can say this.  He was certainly evil in his thoughts and actions, but the movement of Nazism, the ideology that proposed the extermination of millions, the war and carnage, were evil to the core, and more than any one man could create by himself. 

I maintain that a person such as this does not in general get a life review, and would most likely, act in death as he did in life, and gladly seek out a hell to interact with others of his ilk, to continue to pursue his true love and sadism. 

Other than divine intervention, it is simply unlikely that one goes from unloving thoughts and actions to the selfless helping of other people.


Matthew

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Beau
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #2 - Feb 4th, 2010 at 12:39pm
 
I think if Hitler could overcome the Ego fashioning of his character, the role he played here in this plane and know who he really was then he would be capable of of that love. It's just as an actor is no longer the character of Macbeth once he has left the stage and rejoins the group of actors who have moved on beyond that play. Now he can teach, or play another role or even... God forbid, direct.

If I'm directing a play I don't punish the villain though we may discuss what could have been handled differently when we are at the pub at the end of the night.

It's just an opinion.

Beau
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #3 - Feb 4th, 2010 at 1:27pm
 
I would think that Hitler did have his life review. Just like all of us will do/have. He more that likly placed himself just where he believed he should be afterwords. A "hell" most likly. I imagined him existing in a place where only Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals exist. With him being the center of their attentions. But I also believe him to have been able to exit this hell of his own making. Perhaps now he has gone to the other extreme and is now even a Jew himself. Feeling the hate from the Muslim world anoung others. I dont think he was the most evil ever. There has been worse. Most likly will be more, even more evil. I sure dont agree with his message of hate, but I will say, I forgive him. Just like I forgive all of those who followed him, killed for him. Of course there are those who still follow in his thoughts. That the Jews must be wiped off the face of the earth.  But isn't this a religion thing? The thought of...My God being better than yours? Just why is there are there so many people against the Jews?
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gordon phinn
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #4 - Feb 4th, 2010 at 2:08pm
 
Well, anything's possible in spirit.
Two answers really: on the planetary-philosophical level, we need black magicians/evil doers/demonic entities/brothers of the left hand path so that we can be 'tempted'.  Temptation is our inalienable right under the 'free will' mandate of this planet's evolutionary code.  We can not evolve if we do not make mistakes/act stupidly/selfishly/etc/.  So the 'rebel angels' that were hired to do all the tempting
way back when, they really have our best interests at heart and should be thanked for their great sacrifice.
On the personal level, the soul last known as Hitler has been contacted quite recently,- in the 2001 book "Beyond Death: conditions in the afterlife" by Philip Solomon (Hampton Roads).  he has a four page interview beginning on p191 that you might find interesting.

cheers, gordon phinn
Quote:
Something struck me today. Maybe someone can tell me what they think of this. Okay, what if Hitler really was the worst person ever, the most horrible person in the history of the human race. What if there was never a more 'evil' person than him - I mean it - wrap it all up in the name of Hitler if you must - it is just representative of the worst of the worst, the cruelest, most miserable person who ever lived. Well, what if this Hitler went and had a life review and understood exactly how horrible he was. Really, finally understood, because he had this amazingly comprehensive life review, in which he finally understood his place in the world, exactly how he got there, who helped bring him to this point, where he went 'wrong', how he made things worse, etc. etc., along with every 'golden' moment of his life, in which he may have had a moment of kindness, happiness, sadness, laughter, everything that makes up the human experience, everything that happens that we forget along the way. Okay, he's had his life review.

Just what is to prevent him from being a 'helper' with his newfound understanding? What really are his 'limits' if he truly understands 'life' and 'love' in ways which are beyond even what we know here?

Hmmmmn?

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DocM
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #5 - Feb 4th, 2010 at 2:48pm
 
I also don't think that Hitler is condemned by anyone but himself.  So if, after repenting over time, and wrestling with his karma, he can become more loving, then he would be a different person, evolving. 

I don't think everyone gets a life review.  This goes against many many reports of NDEs and other communications with the afterlife.  Many malicious spirits find themselves in a dark twilight type realm immediately after death, (do not pass Go, do not collect 200.00).

Many instances document that one has to be at a certain stage of loving development to have or benefit from a life review.

As to Hawkeye's question of why Jews are so hated, I think one could apply it to many different groups that are "different" and separate themselves from the norm in a society(homosexuals, African Americans, Muslims in America, etc.).  They make easy scapegoats.  However, the statement is somewhat offensive, even if not meant that way by ol' Hawkeye.


Doc
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hawkeye
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #6 - Feb 4th, 2010 at 8:14pm
 
No offence implied towwards them at all. I dont have anything against Jews. Or anyone for that matter . Well perhaps with the exception of crazy religious fundamentalists. (just kidding..Ok I'm not kidding) It an honest question. Why are the Jews hated so much? There's a lot of people out there that hate Jews. I just dont understand why. There seems to be as much hate for Jews out there, as there is for Hitler on this board. Did they do something to deserve all that hate?
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b2
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2010 at 8:27pm
 
Thank you for your interesting replies. I am confused about the life review. Why would some people have one while others don't? Does it have a unique purpose? Do some people 'forget' their 'earth' lives, or portions of it, when arriving in the afterlife? Do they receive this information 'later' when they are ready for it?
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #8 - Feb 6th, 2010 at 9:55am
 
I think every unit of consciousness has some type of life review, but like you say it comes at different times, when they are ready for it. What good would it do if their mind was not focused on it. We are engaged in Life Review constantly even while here in C1, though our memory is not complete on all counts. Why would the beginning of the after life experience be different from that. It is more complete because we are not hindered by our biological brain and ego putting up road blocks.
The NDE is not perhaps the best way to measure whether everyone has a life review since people are brought back to this focus at different times in the experience.

Yours,
Beau
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betson
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #9 - Feb 9th, 2010 at 9:56am
 
Hi

I agree with Beau that life reviews are 'constant', or maybe I'd say intermittent.  We've already established  Smiley that we visit the afterlife regularly in our sleep. Surely some of those visits must be for 'business.' 
The reason I think this is that just the other morning I woke with the memory of a stern voice questionning me, "You don't agree with the Red Cross?!" (the US aid organization.) I mumbled some response about their sometimes having administrative problems, but I felt that censure for hours after waking.  Embarrassed

B2,  Surely there must be much we experience here that slips away, yet I don't know what category the extraneous experience might fit. Think of the children now who take to computers so readily. Computers don't seem to be an eternal truth necessary for spiritual development, but the newer children seem to be carrying  such skills that they may have picked up in a recent life.

I think we don't forget our attitudes. Attitudes mix knowledge, belief, and emotion, so they seem to me to be indelible markers.

Bets
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heisenberg69
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #10 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 1:38pm
 
B2-

'Just what is to prevent him from being a 'helper' with his newfound understanding? What really are his 'limits' if he truly understands 'life' and 'love' in ways which are beyond even what we know here?'

I believe the answer to that question is nothing. Its an interesting question and it leads on from 'Why does Evil exist' type threads. One possible answer is that 'evil' provides a context for the experience of 'good' (a field of relativity). But wait could'nt a person justify their hurtful, selfish acts by saying ' hey all I'm doing is providing a context for others to show/experience good ! '. In reality I don't think this happens because 'evil' people don't think of their actions as evil but are an expression of their current level of consciousness - changing the consciousness changes the actions.

Dave
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b2
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #11 - Feb 15th, 2010 at 4:13pm
 
Yes, I like that point. So many times, I have been given the idea that such 'instruction' can be valuable, that having the 'rug pulled out from under me' was a fine 'teaching lesson'... or somesuch...whatever.

I declare that one must pull the rug out from under one's own self.

I certainly don't need anyone else to show me what dirt looks like. I can take a look at it on my own.

Hmmmn. Thanks. I kinda like that thought.

heisenberg69 wrote on Feb 15th, 2010 at 1:38pm:
B2-

'Just what is to prevent him from being a 'helper' with his newfound understanding? What really are his 'limits' if he truly understands 'life' and 'love' in ways which are beyond even what we know here?'

I believe the answer to that question is nothing. Its an interesting question and it leads on from 'Why does Evil exist' type threads. One possible answer is that 'evil' provides a context for the experience of 'good' (a field of relativity). But wait could'nt a person justify their hurtful, selfish acts by saying ' hey all I'm doing is providing a context for others to show/experience good ! '. In reality I don't think this happens because 'evil' people don't think of their actions as evil but are an expression of their current level of consciousness - changing the consciousness changes the actions.

Dave

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Rob_Roy
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #12 - Feb 20th, 2010 at 11:17pm
 
This post is direct and not for those of a particularly sensitive disposition.

I don't think Hilter was the worst person in the Third Reich. He was someone who started out with decent intentions (in context of post-WWI Germany). He later became corrupted. However he, being in the position of power, was the enabler for those even worse than he. Who was worse? Those who took personal pleasure in gassing people and throwing them into ovens, performing medical "experiments" of dubious value, well, I think you get the idea. They aren't much different than those in more recent times who have put rat poison (an anti-coagulant) in bombs targeting busloads of school children, to give just one example. They have enablers too, people like Osama bin Laden.

I'm not in full possession of all of the reality of the entity who incarnated as Adolf Hitler. So I'm withholding judgment. Even the darkest of souls have some light within them, somewhere, so all things are possible, including Hitler becoming a helper.

I think we could use a helper with his experience. There certainly is a need for one.
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Justin
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #13 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 4:36am
 
gordon phinn wrote on Feb 4th, 2010 at 2:08pm:
Well, anything's possible in spirit.
Two answers really: on the planetary-philosophical level, we need black magicians/evil doers/demonic entities/brothers of the left hand path so that we can be 'tempted'.  Temptation is our inalienable right under the 'free will' mandate of this planet's evolutionary code.  We can not evolve if we do not make mistakes/act stupidly/selfishly/etc/.  So the 'rebel angels' that were hired to do all the tempting
way back when, they really have our best interests at heart and should be thanked for their great sacrifice.

On the personal level, the soul last known as Hitler has been contacted quite recently,- in the 2001 book "Beyond Death: conditions in the afterlife" by Philip Solomon (Hampton Roads).  he has a four page interview beginning on p191 that you might find interesting.

cheers, gordon phinn



   I would agree that all serves a greater purpose and general appreciation is helpful, but i wouldn't go so far as to say that some Souls were hired to be the bad guys (hired by whom?), and that we should be thanking them for playing the lacking in light roles. 

   Also, originally there was no "need" to learn or evolve in the context of being human and having physical experiences. 

    This came about because enough Souls had turned their back on their Creator(s) and It's ways and beingness that it necessitated this kind of experience for our own benefit that we might find our way back. 

  Hence, if more had kept their attunement with Source originally, then we all would have kept playing the roles we were meant to and will eventually move into again, as full and fully conscious companions and co-creators with Source.

   Those Souls who continue to rebel against the ways and begingness of their Creator and against reality, tend to keep the collective in a more stuck state.   For every consciousness influences the Whole to some extent, and if one of us suffers or is stuck, it affects us all on some level. 

  A percentage of us voluntarily gave up our full conscious attunement to Source to get involved in this once very tangled mess called physicality in order to try to "retrieve" many of those original rebellers and stuck siblings.

  Many of us in this process, got overly stuck too from interacting with these collective energies of stuckness.

  In short, nobody hired anybody to express lack of light.  Most every Soul deep, deep down wants to attune to, and express a more pure Light, yet many get relatively lost in the collective stuckness that is physicality.
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Re: Hitler as Helper?
Reply #14 - Feb 21st, 2010 at 2:00pm
 
[/quote]
  In short, nobody hired anybody to express lack of light.  Most every Soul deep, deep down wants to attune to, and express a more pure Light, yet many get relatively lost in the collective stuckness that is physicality.  [/quote]

Do you see our actions in this physicality being the equivalent of our light or lack of light in spirit?  I agree that the physical world is a morass chock-full of opportunities with which to be distracted and to lose the light, but in spirit it seems to me that the blinders are off and we have a handle on the direction toward the Creator.  I am of the mind that only in this three dimensional environment, with the illusion of separation, are we "God-less", or stuck.
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