Conversation Board - 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese

heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese Reply #15 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 5:13pm Although I can believe that Jesus was a spiritually advanced teacher I find it difficult to believe that Truth was revealed only once and to a limited set of the world's population- consigning the rest of humanity to damnation. I think the Almighty is bigger than that.
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Berserk2

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #16 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 7:54pm

Matthew,

Of course, the NDEs of Rawlings' patients are a separate issue from Rawlings acquired spin. He addresses the problem of the ratio of negative to positive experiences by making 3 meaningful points: (1) As a cardiologist, he is actually present during the NDEs, unlike most NDE researchers. (2) Rawlings finds that most hellish NDEs are so painful that the memory represses them afterwards. But he hears these reports before the repression sets in. (3) People who "went to Hell" are far less likely to report this because of the perceived inevitable stigma.

As you know, NDEs often inseparably weave fact (experience) and interpretation. Many who have hellish experiences are scared into a Christian commitment. They join a Fundamentalist church. Then the doctrines of that church color the reformulation of the hellish planes they encountered in their NDE.

Hellish NDEs are commonly reported that fit the description of Rawlings' cases. In my view, there is no doubt that these experiences point to a very real spirit plane. The precise limits of who does nad does not go there is hopelessly elusive and is based on religious preconceptions. What we must not do is rationalize on the grounds that experience follows expectations because, in many cases, this is provably false. More promising is the biblical and Swedenborgian principle that like attracts like. Both heavenly and hellish planes are multi-layered and subject to gradual transitions. Stark contrasts between a simplistic view of heaven and hell are usually misleading. Of this I am certain: New Age descriptions of astral planes are also severely limited by wishful thinking and preconceptions. The only way such ideological impasses can be breached is through a cooperative effort of astral explorers with every conceivable religious, New Age, and secular viewpoints. Only in that way can problems created by interpretive overlays (e. g. higher self; past life recall) have a chance of being sorted out.

Don

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DocM

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #17 - Jan 26^th, 2010 at 11:56pm

Don,

Have you considered from the descriptions of hellish NDEs why some people find themselves in hells, but find them so oppressive (difficult to breath, foul, etc.)and so offensive? Since like attracts like, you'd expect the hell to suit their state of love/mind. I offer one of three possibilities:

1. If the person were truly unloving, the hellish plane might be a welcome place to be. For those in tune with their "hatefulness," hell would not seem oppressive or foul.

2. If the person's superego or "outward" state was good, it may be this superficial outward aspect of the hellbound was appalled and mortified by the NDE, although their "inner" state would have been unloving, & quite comfortable in that area of hell. If they had a NDE, and were somehow in an afterlife plane, they might not have enough time to let go of their "outward" nature, and thus feel the negative aspects of hell.

3. In some cases, if the person were a loving soul, they might, under some circumstances, be allowed, through heavenly grace to visit a hell, in order to bring that experience back to the world (such as Howard Storm, or even Dante).

Matthew

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heisenberg69

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #18 - Jan 27^th, 2010 at 6:31am

I have a little trouble in believing that anyone's inner/true nature is bad. When I remember people in my life who could be described thus (selfish, grasping, cruel etc.) it always seem that is the result of certain sponsoring thoughts; predominately what can be broadly described as 'there's not enough'. For example for a miser there's never enough money, for a cruel person love's in short supply, for an ambitious state leader there's not enough land etc etc. Surely if these sponsoring thoughts are illusory ( which I believe) then when the illusion goes the 'nature' of the person changes. I can understand that when a person dies they could hold onto those dominant thoughts for a time post-death but I find it hard to believe that such thinking represents their 'real' nature. Maybe I'm just a hopeless idealist !

D

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juditha

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #19 - Jan 27^th, 2010 at 8:17am

hi i dont know if im right or wrong here but i have always felt that hellish nde's are a message to those who have been very unkind and selfish abusive murdered and have never felt remorse for there acts against humankind because a lot of hellish nde's have made this person when he/she comes back to the earth plain change into loving caring human beings.

i think its god's way of saying "heh stop right there mate,this is the hell you are creating for yourself,try a little harder to love your neighbour because i noticed through your experience,that you were crying for my help,but i have always walked beside you and have known that somewhere in your soul there is hope faith and my unconditional love to help your soul to progress into knowing, you can be saved for yourself as i gave you freewill to do this

i only ask that you look in yourself and by calling for my help know that love is all you need to feel and all you need to share and that alone is an acheivement and no matter where you walk,you will always walk in the light of your love and mine".

i feel this is what god would say.

love and god bless love juditha

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vagabound

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #20 - Jan 27^th, 2010 at 2:58pm

I once read an NDE which seemed to clear it up a bit. A boy drowned in cold water. He said he found himself in a hellish environment with little creatures gnawing on him, but when he asked for help, the light appeared and he was taken to "heaven".
Little creatures gnawing; this really is what cold water feels like. If you're in a state where you're still connected to your body but you're not able to see, that's probably the picture that would come to you.
I don't think this explains all hellish NDEs, but may be some.

Vagabound

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nini

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #21 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 6:40pm

okay, I want to share something that is from some pendulum work I have done while contacting my "spirit guide". I recently decided to ask some very pointed questions regarding the after life. Let me preface by saying most of these answers were VERY unexpected and unwanted and DO NOT go along with societies' politically correct viewpoints. Take from this what you will.

Question 1: Is there a Heaven?
Answer: Yes
Question 2: Is it pearly gates, golden streets and angels on harps etc. etc.?
Answer: No
Question 3: Is heaven more like a Earth experience but w/out pain, work and with everything you could ever want?
Answer: yes
Question 4: Do animals go to heaven?
Answer: yes
Question 5: Do only Christian go to heaven?
Answer: no
Question 6: So, are there many other religions in Heaven?
Answer: yes
Question 7: Is there a hell?
Answer: yes
Question 8: Is hell like the fire and brimstone type of hell cliche?
Answer: yes
Question 9: Is hell a physical location?
Answer: yes
Question 10: Is it at the center of the earth?
Answer: yes
Question 11: Do homosexuals go to heaven?
Answer: no
Question 12: So if you're gay you go to hell?
Answer: yes
Question 13: You go to hell even if your a theist homosexual?
Answer: yes
Question 14: Is Jesus God?
Answer: yes.
Question 15: Is there life on other planets?
Answer: yes.
Question 16: Does this life on other planets have the same heave and hell?
Answer: yes.
Question 17: is wicca an acceptable religion in heaven?
Answer: no
Question 18: If you do witchcraft you go to hell?
Answer: yes
Question: 19: What if you are a "sinner" and do these hell-bound act, can you repent to God or the Source or whatever you call it and save your soul from hell?
Answer: yes
Question 20: Is pendulum work, like what I'm doing now to contact my angels or spirit guides considered wrong in Gods eyes?
Answer: no (phew!)

I asked more question of which didn't pertain to this topic so I will just stop here. Like I said, a lot of the answers I received were unexpected. I had theorized that hell was the type of afterlife you got if you felt you deserved it, where each hell was different. Heaven to me would be more like the answer I got, similar to "Focus 27". And having friends and a sister who is gay I really didn't like the answer I got but have to accept that maybe it's right. I've also been known to dabble in spellcraft too and was surprised by the answer, but then again, not really surprised at all. I guess we won't know until our day comes. The phrase "Choose Wisely" seems to feel appropriate here. Wink

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b2 Ex Member	Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese Reply #22 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 8:20pm If gay people aren't welcome in 'heaven' or anyplace else 'better' people go, those will be places I won't be spending a lot of time in. I don't care what that pendulum gets 'right', I would toss the thing in the river.
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nini New Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 19 Los Angeles Gender:	Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese Reply #23 - Jan 28^th, 2010 at 9:41pm we always want to believe what we want to believe. I won't be getting rid of that pendulum, but thanks. good luck.
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juditha

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #24 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 12:35pm

hi i would say that if you go to hell when you sin,then there must be one hell of a queue waiting to go through the gates of hell,because each one of us and that means every human being on this earth plain have all got skeletons in the cupboard.

spirit is love and god is love and whatever we all are,be it homosexaul lesbian religion or green with white spots,spirit are not interested, only that how much we have loved on this plain and how much we are loved on this plain and everyone's life review is so that they can understand themselves in everything and not to be judged,and every thought they have had,everything they have done,good/bad and not be judged.

its people that know they treat other human beings like crap during their life reveiw, feel nothing but there are the few that do,but they have to work harder to know what loves all about.

hell is a man made word,in the spirit world there is a plain,where its cold damp unloving and no light in the darkness,and these higher spirits visit this plain at times and open there arms and say"who wants to be saved" and those that go to these spirits are lifted up onto another plain where they learn to know of there hatred,which with spirit's help is turned to love,so there is always hope for these people,but theres the downside,some are so evil that they turn away from the love and light of these higher spirits,but spirit never give up on them, as god's love is unconditional.

love and god bless love juditha

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nini New Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 19 Los Angeles Gender:	Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese Reply #25 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 12:52pm how do you know all this, Juditha? Is this from personal experience of the afterlife or is it just your belief system?
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juditha

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Re: 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese
Reply #26 - Jan 29^th, 2010 at 6:30pm

hi nini i have spoken with many mediums over the years and also i just seem to know this and sense this from spirit and also doris stokes was a very genuine medium and she had written about these things,no soul is ever turned away who want to change and feel love.

i have and do commune with spirit and i have learned many things.

love and god bless love juditha

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