Conversation Board - Evil People?

Seraphis1

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #60 - Feb 12^th, 2010 at 10:39pm

Volu wrote on Feb 12^th, 2010 at 8:43pm:

Alan,

"Who would you choose as a vehicle of divine truth, Jesus Christ? or Robert Monroe,? obviously you think Monroe is the guy to follow, maybe all the way into a hell you do not believe in!!"

Scare tactics, suggesting good ol' hell awaits the wanderer. A dark manoeuvre; evil, if you like. So, you want to follow jesus, right?, but you don't seem too happy about the prospect of others dancing to another tune?

Hi Volu: The problem with using Jesus as a model is Jesus is a myth modeled on some very ancient sources... i.e... the whole of the Jesus myth is almost verbatim modeled on the Isis/Osiris myth and goes back to the Mithra myth... but, if you know how to read the symbols (as I discuss in my thread "Important discovery"... the crucifixion is simply the destruction of the Ego in order to liberate the consciousness from the objective world into the subjective world of the non-physical world... which is what Robert Monroe strives to do with Hemi-sync forgoing the necessity for the crucifixion scenario for spiritual asperants... the Ego died hard prior to Hemi-sync.

S.

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DocM

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #61 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 12:35am

Seraphis,

Your denial of the existence of Jesus is not based on historical fact, written records, eye witness testimonies, etc. As such, unfortunately it is Kool-Aid New Age drivel. While it is not wrong to question the evidence behind anything (i.e. did Jesus of Nazareth exist?), you would have to have gone through the ancient writings, records, etc. to have any way to meaningfully answer this question.

The similarities of JC to Egyptian Gods, writings of the Essenes, etc. in no way shows that he did or did not exist and walk the earth. Ridiculous. Now, if you use afterlife exploration techniques, and astral exploration, along with NDEs, you find overwhelming evidence that Jesus did/does exist and manifests himself to others. Monroe wrote of an episode where JC passed by on a chariot and all exposed their abdomens to him - and at that point, Monroe mentioned that the son of God was flying through the heavens.

The anti-biblical New Age conspiracy theories that fly around the Web/internet have major holes - we've been through this before on this forum before you joined.

All that being said, I do think the story of JC is a perfect story for others to follow to find God and ascend in the afterlife. To act lovingly, to rid oneself of ego. In some ways, JC is a perfect model of one who was incarnate in flesh, making a seamless transition into heaven and showing the way to other people. So the symbolism you mention is accurate.

But please, if you insist on trying to argue that JC is only a myth, you are doing so on no factual data, and in the process are offending a great many people.

Matthew

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Seraphis1

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #62 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 12:54am

DocM wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 12:35am:

Seraphis,

Your denial of the existence of Jesus is not based on historical fact, written records, eye witness testimonies, etc. As such, unfortunately it is Kool-Aid New Age drivel. While it is not wrong to question the evidence behind anything (i.e. did Jesus of Nazareth exist?), you would have to have gone through the ancient writings, records, etc. to have any way to meaningfully answer this question.

The similarities of JC to Egyptian Gods, writings of the Essenes, etc. in no way shows that he did or did not exist and walk the earth. Ridiculous. Now, if you use afterlife exploration techniques, and astral exploration, along with NDEs, you find overwhelming evidence that Jesus did/does exist and manifests himself to others. Monroe wrote of an episode where JC passed by on a chariot and all exposed their abdomens to him - and at that point, Monroe mentioned that the son of God was flying through the heavens.

The anti-biblical New Age conspiracy theories that fly around the Web/internet have major holes - we've been through this before on this forum before you joined.

All that being said, I do think the story of JC is a perfect story for others to follow to find God and ascend in the afterlife. To act lovingly, to rid oneself of ego. In some ways, JC is a perfect model of one who was incarnate in flesh, making a seamless transition into heaven and showing the way to other people. So the symbolism you mention is accurate.

But please, if you insist on trying to argue that JC is only a myth, you are doing so on no factual data, and in the process are offending a great many people.

Matthew

Hi Doc: Unfortunately the documentation you suggest exists as research by mainstream scholars has been shown to be forgeries. Especially, the Josephus reference which is the only Roman reference that was suppose to have existed...

But, if one understands the symbolism of the Old and New Testament then certainly one will gain thereby because the symbolism is profoundly accurate in the path it lays down for "enlightenment".

I remember the Chariot incident in Monroe's work only vaguely, but, what I do recall is that he did not identify the Being as Jesus... it could have been any symbol of the Divine...

In the Astral, symbolism is even more pronounced, I have seen Tabernacles and the Eucharest in my "samadhi" experience, and I was profoundly affected by the experience, but, when I read the Monroe account of The Emitter and the Aperture.... I realized what I saw was symbolized to protect me from radiation I could not have withstood had I seen it as it really was as Monroe did... Pure Divine Energy... if you will recall Monroe almost dropped his body in that incident. And he says it took a long time to recover physically.

S.

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Berserk2

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #63 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 1:40am

Seraphis, for me your willingness to pontificate about a subject about which you know nothing discredits the credibility of your astral experiences as well. There is no evidence that the Serapis/Isis myth was even known in the Palestine of Jesus' day, let alone be taken seriously by Jewish Christians. The cult of Mithra first arrived at Rome in the 2nd century AD, and so, is irrelevant to your claims about Jesus. Josephus (born c. 37 AD) makes not 1, but 2 allusions to Jesus, the 2nd of which is universally accepted as authentic. The reference to which you allude has also been demonstrated as authentic. A couple of words have been added by a later Christian hand, but the rest, including Josephus' allusion to Jesus' crucifixion, is authentic and perfectly manifests Josephus's writing style. Paul was Jesus' contemporary and he verified his reports of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection appearances in 2 visits to Jerusalem 14 years apart, in which he verified his Gospel through extensive discussions with the eyewitnesses. The Gospels can be connected with eyewitness testimony in a variety of ways, too complex to be documented here, as I have often done before.

Tiberius was the emperor in Jesus' day and Claudius shortly thereafter. There is even a Roman inscription from Nazareth dating to either Tiberius or Claudius that threatens Jewish Christians with execution if they rob more graves. This inscription concedes that the Romans have no idea what happened to Jesus' crucified body; so they assume that his disciples must have stolen it from the tomb and then lied about Jesus' resurrection.

Only New Age kooks like Achary S. espouse your drivel and she is universally dismissed by mainstream biblical scholars, even by those who don't believe in Jesus' miracles or, for that matter, life after death.

Don

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #64 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 3:36am

There are heavenly realms so beautiful that they defy adequate description, likewise there are hells that make the Christian hell look like a kiddies Sunday afternoon picnic

I saw what I detailed above during a profound near death experience. Due to my curiosity about evil, good, heaven hell and the devil I posed these questions to the being who accompanied me during this event.

God does not put anyone in heaven or anyone in hell, we put ourselves where we deserve to go, Hitler with his own kind and ultimately the beautiful people on this forum in a heavenly realm they deserve. "In the afterlife it is birds of a feather", remember in the afterlife communications is from mind to mind a sort of telepathy, if we all ended up in the same place after we die, then we would have minds like Hitler, Jeffry Dahma, and Ted Bundy in the mix, can you image the horror of sharing they crazed evil of these people

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Alan McDougall

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Seraphis1

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #65 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:16am

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 1:40am:

Seraphis, for me your willingness to pontificate about a subject about which you know nothing discredits the credibility of your astral experiences as well. There is no evidence that the Serapis/Isis myth was even known in the Palestine of Jesus' day, let alone be taken seriously by Jewish Christians. The cult of Mithra first arrived at Rome in the 2nd century AD, and so, is irrelevant to your claims about Jesus. Josephus (born c. 37 AD) makes not 1, but 2 allusions to Jesus, the 2nd of which is universally accepted as authentic. The reference to which you allude has also been demonstrated as authentic. A couple of words have been added by a later Christian hand, but the rest, including Josephus' allusion to Jesus' crucifixion, is authentic and perfectly manifests Josephus's writing style. Paul was Jesus' contemporary and he verified his reports of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection appearances in 2 visits to Jerusalem 14 years apart, in which he verified his Gospel through extensive discussions with the eyewitnesses. The Gospels can be connected with eyewitness testimony in a variety of ways, too complex to be documented here, as I have often done before.

Tiberius was the emperor in Jesus' day and Claudius shortly thereafter. There is even a Roman inscription from Nazareth dating to either Tiberius or Claudius that threatens Jewish Christians with execution if they rob more graves. This inscription concedes that the Romans have no idea what happened to Jesus' crucified body; so they assume that his disciples must have stolen it from the tomb and then lied about Jesus' resurrection.

Only New Age kooks like Achary S. espouse your drivel and she is universally dismissed by mainstream biblical scholars, even by those who don't believe in Jesus' miracles or, for that matter, life after death.

Don

Hi Berserk: Thanks for letting me know I've had no spiritual experiences. I'm glad someone on the board knows the truth about other peoples realities.

The truth is yes I am speculating about history and until someone can get into the Hall of Records and check this material out... we won't know the truth. I'm a little surprise know one has yet got into the Hall on the board...

Please tell me how I can be as wonderful and enlightened as your good self.

S.

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betson Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 3445 SE USA Gender:	Re: Evil People? Reply #66 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:48am Greetings, It's hard to see two people we all care about fighting with each other. Please don't fight. Bets
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Seraphis1

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #67 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:57am

Seraphis1 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:16am:

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 1:40am:

Seraphis, for me your willingness to pontificate about a subject about which you know nothing discredits the credibility of your astral experiences as well. There is no evidence that the Serapis/Isis myth was even known in the Palestine of Jesus' day, let alone be taken seriously by Jewish Christians. The cult of Mithra first arrived at Rome in the 2nd century AD, and so, is irrelevant to your claims about Jesus. Josephus (born c. 37 AD) makes not 1, but 2 allusions to Jesus, the 2nd of which is universally accepted as authentic. The reference to which you allude has also been demonstrated as authentic. A couple of words have been added by a later Christian hand, but the rest, including Josephus' allusion to Jesus' crucifixion, is authentic and perfectly manifests Josephus's writing style. Paul was Jesus' contemporary and he verified his reports of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection appearances in 2 visits to Jerusalem 14 years apart, in which he verified his Gospel through extensive discussions with the eyewitnesses. The Gospels can be connected with eyewitness testimony in a variety of ways, too complex to be documented here, as I have often done before.

Tiberius was the emperor in Jesus' day and Claudius shortly thereafter. There is even a Roman inscription from Nazareth dating to either Tiberius or Claudius that threatens Jewish Christians with execution if they rob more graves. This inscription concedes that the Romans have no idea what happened to Jesus' crucified body; so they assume that his disciples must have stolen it from the tomb and then lied about Jesus' resurrection.

Only New Age kooks like Achary S. espouse your drivel and she is universally dismissed by mainstream biblical scholars, even by those who don't believe in Jesus' miracles or, for that matter, life after death.

Don

Hi Berserk: Thanks for letting me know I've had no spiritual experiences. I'm glad someone on the board knows the truth about other peoples realities.

The truth is yes I am speculating about history and until someone can get into the Hall of Records and check this material out... we won't know the truth. I'm a little surprise know one has yet got into the Hall on the board...

Please tell me how I can be as wonderful and enlightened as your good self.

S.

Hi Berserk: I want to apologize to you and the board for my flip, sarcasm.. in the world I came out of when one is reduced to using character assassination and name calling you demonstrate that you have exhausted sound argument.

First I try to use reason and logic as well as common sense when I look at the bible... and recently on the History channel an experiment was done using a man roughly the size and build of the historical Jesus... they built a crucifix according to what they thought would be the specifications of the Biblical crucifix... guess what this man was not tortured, whipped or physically abused in any way and he could not carry the cross more than a few feet much less the several miles the historical Jesus would have had to have done it plus UP a hill.

S.

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Seraphis1 Super Member Offline ALK Member Posts: 1446	Re: Evil People? Reply #68 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:59am betson wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 10:48am: Greetings, It's hard to see two people we all care about fighting with each other. Please don't fight. Bets Hi Bets: You are way too sensitive .. don't take everything so seriously... hell, even I felt your pain... . Sorry if I upset you. Hope to do better next time. S.
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Berserk2

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #69 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 5:24pm

Seraphis: "Please tell me how I can be as wonderful and enlightened as your good self."
_________________________________

Well, I'm hardly wonderful. In fact, right now many of suspicious of me for defending the character of a school psychologist charged with child molestation. People tend to define character by one's worst act and not see the big picture. As for your term "enlightened," In grad school, I spent 13 years at Princeton and Harvard reading,studying, and teaching the primary texts of which you speak, often in the original languages. As a Theology professor, I attended the most learned annual academic conference on the Bible and religion in the world (the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Biblical Literature). So I am "enlightened"enough to report the current scholarly consensus on such matters. People will inevitably express opinions based on casual reading rather than on the experts who shape the scholarly consensus. You are entitled to your opinion, whether well informed or not. But I will always expose dogmatic pontifications based in inadequate raeding of the primary texts and the commentary of top academic experts.

Don

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« Last Edit: Feb 13^th, 2010 at 7:13pm by Berserk2 »

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Seraphis1

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #70 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 5:36pm

Berserk2 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2010 at 1:40am:

Seraphis, for me your willingness to pontificate about a subject about which you know nothing discredits the credibility of your astral experiences as well. There is no evidence that the Serapis/Isis myth was even known in the Palestine of Jesus' day, let alone be taken seriously by Jewish Christians. The cult of Mithra first arrived at Rome in the 2nd century AD, and so, is irrelevant to your claims about Jesus. Josephus (born c. 37 AD) makes not 1, but 2 allusions to Jesus, the 2nd of which is universally accepted as authentic. The reference to which you allude has also been demonstrated as authentic. A couple of words have been added by a later Christian hand, but the rest, including Josephus' allusion to Jesus' crucifixion, is authentic and perfectly manifests Josephus's writing style. Paul was Jesus' contemporary and he verified his reports of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection appearances in 2 visits to Jerusalem 14 years apart, in which he verified his Gospel through extensive discussions with the eyewitnesses. The Gospels can be connected with eyewitness testimony in a variety of ways, too complex to be documented here, as I have often done before.

Tiberius was the emperor in Jesus' day and Claudius shortly thereafter. There is even a Roman inscription from Nazareth dating to either Tiberius or Claudius that threatens Jewish Christians with execution if they rob more graves. This inscription concedes that the Romans have no idea what happened to Jesus' crucified body; so they assume that his disciples must have stolen it from the tomb and then lied about Jesus' resurrection.

Only New Age kooks like Achary S. espouse your drivel and she is universally dismissed by mainstream biblical scholars, even by those who don't believe in Jesus' miracles or, for that matter, life after death.

Don

Hi Berserk: Since you seem so wedded to your convictions and your level of certainty is so intense, you are willing to engage in character assassination and personal attack I decided to really think about your assertions.

Here is what I came up with:

1. This is like a court case in which each side presents an expert witness. It is still opinion and not demonstrable irrefutable fact. How can it be and that you would be apoplectic about someone’s opinion and I emphasize opinion… because it is only my opinion that the Jesus story is a myth not a fact… is a bit puzzling.

2. The fact that you think somehow the Isis/Osiris story was not known in Palestine is only partly true since the masses probably didn’t know the story… but any scholar at the time would have had access to the myth, that you would believe or try to use dates in which information of ancient religions and myth were known or not known at the time is ludicrous because since the time of Solon (The Greek) 638 BC–558 BC and Herodotus (Greek) 484 BC 425 BC had access to all the legends of Egypt and brought those back to the Mediterraen area so who knows what was floating around especially among the educated classes..

3. Let me tell you about “eye-witness” reports which you seem not to realize are still hearsay and are double hearsay because you are repeating hearsay.

Lionel Richie the musician, a black man in the ‘70’s when blacks in white establishments were rare… was suppose to have his dog in an elevator… as white’s got on they were supposed to be apprehensive because of the reputation of blacks as thieves and robbers… his dog got excited and he yelled, “Sit!” and all the whites in the elevator immediate sat down waiting to be robbed.

Well, Lionel Richie on a talk show told this story and said: It wasn’t true!!!

In the discussion it came out that everyone who told this story claimed they were on that elevator… even a very prominent celebrity.

So much for someone saying they were eye witnesses especially a written statement… hundreds of years after the fact.

So my friend you can chose to believe anything you chose to believe… let us agree to disagree.

S.

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Berserk2

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #71 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 7:35pm

"The fact that you think somehow the Isis/Osiris story was not known in Palestine is only partly true since the masses probably didn’t know the story… but any scholar at the time would have had access to the myth"
__________________________________

Seraphis, you know nothing about the Palestinian educational system of Jesus' day. You naively and anachronistically assume that they share the modern interest in comparative religion. Jewish scholars back then studied sacred Jewish texts and Jewish oral tradition.

that you would believe or try to use dates in which information of ancient religions and myth were known or not known at the time is ludicrous because since the time of Solon (The Greek) 638 BC–558 BC and Herodotus (Greek) 484 BC 425 BC had access to all the legends of Egypt and brought those back to the Mediterraen area."

Yes, but not to Palestine. To establish a foreign idea as the background for a Palestinian Jewish or Christian idea, scholars insist that evidence of that idea be found in the foreign region with a different culture and mythology. You must also establish when a particular cult (in this case Mithraism) first surfaced in that region. Obviously you have not even done rudimentary research on this question. More importantly, Greek mythology was odious to Palestinian Jewry; early Christians considered Greek gods demons in disguise and would have not interest in incorporating your myths into their faith.

Your point about Jesus' crucifixion is plain silly. Jews, Romans, and Jewish Christians all agreed that Jesus was crucified; only Christians believed in Jesus' resurrection. The claim that Jesus was never crucified is a mid-second century Gnostic claim motivated by the Middle Platonic idea that God is impersonal, and without emotion, and cannot suffer. This claim comes far too late to reflect valid oral tradition; so modern scholarship does not take their claim seriously as a historical possibility. Besides, you are being more than speculative; you are pontificating about matters in which you lack academic grounding. In short, you seem incapable of critical thinking.

Don

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DocM Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 2168	Re: Evil People? Reply #72 - Feb 13^th, 2010 at 8:43pm Why are people willing to believe that Robert Monroe met an alien in an astral travel who looked like WC Fields and was visiting him to learn about the concept of humor found on earth, but these same people discount the thousands of astral encounters or NDEs with Jesus Christ as either a myth or being symbolic? Doc
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Alan McDougall Super Member Offline Posts: 2104 South Africa Gender:	Re: Evil People? Reply #73 - Feb 14^th, 2010 at 6:06am Don do you believe in the reality evil?? Alan
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Volu

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Re: Evil People?
Reply #74 - Feb 14^th, 2010 at 8:56am

Seraphis1,

"The problem with using Jesus as a model is Jesus is a myth modeled on some very ancient sources... i.e... the whole of the Jesus myth is almost verbatim modeled on the Isis/Osiris myth and goes back to the Mithra myth."

I don't cater to myth, so no problem. But I don't see a belief in jesus as a problem neither. A different choice. Regarding Monroe, what may be irritating to some is that he didn't describe the different heavens as the omega, but told about a ladder with more steps on it - focus 27/the park and beyond.

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