Debate about whether good and evil exist is meaningless apart from philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein's basic insight that the real meaning of words is their use in our language games.  Thus, "evil" by definition exists in language games in which we need to express fear and outrage beyond belief for the unnecessary pain and debilitation caused by someone who meant harm to another.  The real issue is what harm is and is not possible in this life and especially in the next (e.g. the shredding of atheist Howard Storm's spirit body by denizens of a hellish plane prior to his NDE rescue by Jesus).

Robert Bruce was trying to exorcise a possessed toddler whose entity was ruining his life.  In an act of love RB challenged the entity to enter him instead.  RB imagined that he could rid himself of the entity through various means (sending it PUL, etc.) at his own convenience.  Instead, the entity took control of RB and, more than once, he found himself baside the crib with a sharp knife poised to stab his young son.  RB felt almost powerless to resist this urge. Finally, out of desperation, he went out into the wllderness, thinking he might be killed, but not wanting to be present to his child to do it harm.  Eventually, he broke free of this possession. 

I would call this entity by definition "evil," and would argue that RB's reckless disregard for the power of evil almost cost him and his son their lives.  It strikes me as meaningless and just plain silly to allege a "higher purpose" for such malevolence.  Such examples could of course be multiplied.

Don   

This debate's one where experince tells the soul the truth. You can't know what you haven't experienced, and in truth its most often a souls ego which speaks loudest, for its screaming because its life depends on it.


There is evil, this you can be assured, its your ego which tells you its not so, not the other way around. Are there souls more advanced than others on the earth plain you bet there are, and when you want to think other wise, its your ego telling you this isn't true.

Alan, is just trying to save you time and effort. He's doing nothing more than relaying what he knows to be true. Its really something that seems beyond your ability to comprehend at present. You seem to want to beleive your ego and live within the illusion. Live there, who cares in the end you will know the truth, for one day you will have to face and overcome such evil. For this is the only way forward.

Evil's there to challenge the soul, to test its resolve,


Enjoy the ride, it long, difficult and God dam hard when your coming to the end. If you haven't struggled, been challenged to the point where it seems nearly impossible to see the light through all the darkness, then you have no idea yet what evolution really takes

So the twin towers bombers were just good loving guys going about their daily learning experience and the victims deserved what they got due to the law of karma

Who would you choose as a vehicle of divine truth, Jesus Christ? or Robert Monroe,? obviously you think Monroe is the guy to follow, maybe all the way into a hell you do not believe in!! [/quote]

I don't think anyone is describing terrorists as "good loving guys", nor that those victimized by their actions were getting their karmic due.  All anyone has attempted to do is to voice their opinions, their truths about the topic of "evil people".  To put words in their mouths, or to minimize their points of view with ridicule and hyperbole reduces the level of the conversation.

Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 12^th, 2010 at 3:28am:


I choose Robert Monroe, I know for sure he existed.

S.

For me, the word is 'false'.

Fear: false evidence appearing as real.

Quote:

"I wonder if there is such a thing as being so religiously unbalanced that you become evil? L"
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Yes, and I would take that one step further: unbalanced religious devotion is a major source of evil.  Spiritual growth is almost always dogged by severe tests which determine whether the transformation is real and permanent or illusory.  That was true of Jesus and it is certainly true of the Christians I've encountered.  In fact, I have recently observed that Christians who get into several moral or legal trouble often fall prey to this precisely when they are making quantum leaps forward in the unselfishness of their journey.  For example, I am now regularly visiting a Christian school psychologist in jail, charged with child molestation.  The outcome is uncertain, but this charge came right after a time when he was offering his services for a wide variety of altruistic services.  Apart from this charge, everyone recognizes this man as one of the most warm, loving, and useful people in town.  Christians often fail their tests and regress.  This failure can make them worse human beings than they were prior to their conversion.

Also, I have observed that every life-changing powerful spiritual gift has its odious counterfeit.  For example, speaking in tongues can unleash more ecstasy and spiritual power than any other human experience.  But if counterfeit, it can increase religious bigotry and can even be vehicle for dangerous possession or oppression by evil spirits.  I am appalled by how little attention is devoted to spiritual discernment in such matters, though the exercise of such discernment is threatening and uncomfortably ego-dewflating.

These two principles give religion a bad name.  For these reasons, Hawkeye, I sympathize with your loathing of religious fundamentalism.

Don

Alan,

"Who would you choose as a vehicle of divine truth, Jesus Christ? or Robert Monroe,? obviously you think Monroe is the guy to follow, maybe all the way into a hell you do not believe in!!"

Scare tactics, suggesting good ol' hell awaits the wanderer. A dark manoeuvre; evil, if you like. So, you want to follow jesus, right?, but you don't seem too happy about the prospect of others dancing to another tune?