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F27's Park...A Monroe creation (Read 8063 times)
hawkeye
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F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Dec 22nd, 2009 at 8:03pm
 
Wondering what others are thinking when it comes to the "Park". Isn't F27 much the same as any area found in F26? That being a BST.  As the area is a Monroe creation for those of us who have opened ourselves to the possibility of it,...would it be there for others who know not of its existence? It may even be considered a heaven to some, but is it? A heaven would be a creation of God, and not of Monroe. Thoughts..
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I Am Dude
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2009 at 8:14pm
 
The thing is, Monroe claims that it has been there long before he discovered it.  You can't create something that already exists.
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #2 - Dec 23rd, 2009 at 6:23pm
 
Hawkeye,

  hawkeye wrote on Dec 22nd, 2009 at 8:03pm:
Wondering what others are thinking when it comes to the "Park". Isn't F27 much the same as any area found in F26? That being a BST.  As the area is a Monroe creation for those of us who have opened ourselves to the possibility of it,...would it be there for others who know not of its existence? It may even be considered a heaven to some, but is it? A heaven would be a creation of God, and not of Monroe. Thoughts..


It's probably good to remember that the "Focus Level" labels Monroe used were his way of describing areas of consciousness he discovered during his OBE explorations.  Each label, F23 through F27 is based on the kind of people he found in those areas of consciousness.   To say Monroe created these focus levels is a little like saying Columbus created the New World he discovered.  I tend to believe Columbus, like Monroe, discovered a New World that existed  before his arrival and exploration.

Focus 26 is an area of consciousness in which people are gathered together (and stuck) based on shared beliefs.  Monroe used "stuck" to describe inhabitants (within an area of consciousness like F23 - F26) who are unable through their own efforts to leave their area of consciousness.

All of the "heavens" I personally have explored appear to have been created by those who share the beliefs of the religion that claims the place exists.  So, for example, there is a Lutheran Heaven which is a completely separate place from Catholic, Baptist, etc. heavens created by those religions.  Likewise, all the hells I have explored were created by those humans who share the beliefs of the group, like Lutherans, Catholics, etc.  Lutheran Hell and Catholic or other hells are separate places inhabitated by only those who share the belief in that hell's existence.  Not all the hells I've explored were created by religions, any belief system

While some might read descriptions of F27 and believe it is a heaven, Monroe didn't describe it that way.  He claimed F27 was created "by humans and for humans."

Bruce
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DocM
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #3 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 8:43am
 
I too do not think the Park is a "Monroe creation."  For centuries, there have been writings about a similar place to be found when people die.  Other groups have referred to this place as the "summerland" - a place with unspeakable beauty, tranquility, happiness.

These descriptions antedate RAM by such a long time, I don't think it leaves any doubt.  However, there are some unknowns.  How many beautiful "parks" are there?  Can various spirits of varied levels of love all go to an initial beautiful park, there to be met by loved ones, and then, to eventually migrate off to their own areas (determined by their own ability to love and their own passion - some of who may end up in a hell?) 

Is a park an initial rest stop on this transition leaving earth life, and are there many set up on many levels of the afterlife? 


M
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #4 - Dec 24th, 2009 at 1:18pm
 
I think it important also to remember that you are not nessassarly stuck in the F levels lower that 27. You believe yourself to be stuck. Many energies move out of these areas on their own or with the assistance of others by opening themselves to the possibility of love and of movement. In some cases these so called Focus Levels are places that some go willingly, and are happy to carry on their existences in. The being "stuck" part, I believe is the "hellish" part. Fluidity being more important so that movement is kept possible. I also believe that there are a number of energies, people, that believe that for instance Monroe, and a number of others, are Gurus or God like energies. That what they have preached (for lack of a differant word) or put out there, are "the" truths. Thus putting them on a level of a higher energy. With that in mind, it could be possible for one who believe strongly enough that to be the case, could end up stuck in an area of the lower levels, with others, who believe the same. I personally don't believe the energy described by Monroe as F27 to be Heaven. Nor Monroe to be correct on all accounts. But he has shown us a way to remember and how to see. I believe he would say that, his is a way, but not the only way. Helping you to stand yet knowing that you must take the first real step. For helping me to stand, I hold him, and you Bruce,  close in my heart. Merry Christmas.
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Ginny
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 8:23pm
 
Hi Hawkeye,

Bob Monroe explained F27 to his daughter by saying it was a place where no one could impose their will over another. Kinda neat.

Much love,

Ginny
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hawkeye
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #6 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 1:51pm
 
That is neat Ginny. Attempting to impose your will, spiritualy, over anouther is almost evil, isn't it? Attempts to control others by the means of fear, intimidation, anger, and the sort have been going on for thousands of years. Those doing so would fit well in the lower F levels. Those displaying that sort of negative energy would never make it to F27. There may even be a place, or F level, where those attempting to impose their belief that "only" Monroes beliefs in the afterlife are true, get stuck in. "Impose" being the problem.
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #7 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 3:56pm
 
[Wow, Ginny!  After years of absence, I was wondering if you had died; and now suddenly you're back!  Wonderful!]

In my view, Carl Jung discovered a concept which has great potential to help us probe the depths of mysteries associated with afterlife planes.  "Archetypes" are innate tendencies to organize meaningful experience around certain symbols.  Examples range from the anima and the shadow self to whiteness and the park as a symbol of Paradise-like postmortem conditions. 

(1) The anima is the feminine aspect of the male psyche that initiates men into the mysteries of the unconcious and, therefore, often into spiritual experiences.  It manifests in a man's dreams and fantasies as a female presence at the center of a threatening spiritual encounter.  Jung labels the male aspect of a woman's psyche the "animus."

(2) The "shadow" is the suppresed aspect of our total self that we struggle to deny or marginalize.  The shadow manifests in our dreams and fantasies as a person of the same sex that we find threatening or insane.  But in our dreams it calls us back to a time in our lives when we made poor choices that blocked the natural progress of our true self.  It also manifests in "Freudian slips" of the tongue or in the inappropriate remarks intoxicated people make which they later excuse by claiming: "I'm sorry; I just wasn't myself last night."  The truth is, your true self DID manifest last night, but it was your shadow self.

(3) Here is a Jungian perspective on the whiteness archetype.  Prior to missionary David Livingstone's explorations that opened up the continent of Africa, Europeans were not considered "white" people.  In fact, we have a flesh color, not a white color.  The white-black distinction unleashed the energy of the "whiteness" archetype.  Even in African culture, the white archetype stands for the good, the true, and the beautiful and the black archetype stands for the bad, the sinister, and the false.  These 2 archetypes have evolved through encounters with the dangers and uncertainties of the African night and through growing awareness of the life-giving power and security offered by our sun.  The energy of these archetypes has generated racism in the form of the superiority complex of Europeans and has helped keep African slaves in their place through low self-esteem. 

(4) The park as an archtype of a postmortem Paradise or ideal initial meeting point may have influenced the perceived shape and nature of Focus 27.  The core elements of the standard NDE are each archetypal in a Jungian sense.  The more we grasp the identity and nature of archetypal energy systems, the better we might be able to penetrate the secrets of postmortem planes. 

Don
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #8 - Jan 5th, 2010 at 5:16pm
 
Well 'said.'  Wink

Thanks again, I love reading your posts Berserk2.
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Ginny
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 5:21pm
 
Hawkeye,

Yep, I'm sure there's a world within the BST populated by many who believe Monroe's adventures are the only truth. If enough people believe in any given mindset, the believing is the energy that subsequently creates. But Bob Monroe was the last person who ever wanted to see any kind of a structured belief system in the physical, dependent on faith alone, be established due to his work. He taught that everyone has to get their own experience, their own proof (if they so desire)...which is exactly what Bruce Moen has carried on with.

One of the things I feel so strongly about is that we as spiritual beings are having a blast with this 'human experience'. We aren't here in the physical because of any kind of sinful or rebellious behavior. We're here because we want to be, because we want to get out of the Earth Life/Human Drama all that we can...because by our very nature we seek to explore, experience and learn...and have fun while doing it. Some don't feel a need to understand why they're here. Some do. Many want the experience of abiding by faith alone. For me I just wanted to find out firsthand who thought it was funny that I had to be Here with all the pain and sorrow life brings (many years ago, I wasn't a very happy duck then, lol Wink). It's all good.

Much love,

Ginny


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Ginny
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #10 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 5:40pm
 
Hi Don,

Well I was in a part of the BST reserved for Girl Scouts but got kicked out cause I repeatedly used the word 'thirsty' when 'thrifty' was called for, insisted on wearing any kind of jewelry while in uniform and I kept lobbying for more camping and outdoor stuff! So here I am Cool.

Good to see you too, Don Smiley.

Much love,

Ginny
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 11:18am
 
Ginny,

I am so happy to see you here again.  Your perspective and the way you describe your experiences makes reading about your activities a big treat for me.  I still remember chatting with you while riding the Ferry from Friday Harbor Island back to the Mainland World.

Guess the Girl Scouts loss is our gain  Wink

Welcome back, Ginny

Bruce
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:09pm
 
My church in northeast Washington hosts Scouts (both sexes), Cubs, Campfire Girls as well as AA, NA, Habitat for Humanity, Blood Bank, and many more social organizations. 

Ginny: "Well I was in a part of the BST reserved for Girl Scouts but got kicked out cause I repeatedly used the word 'thirsty' when 'thrifty' was called for, insisted on wearing any kind of jewelry."

I don't think our Girl Scout leaders would hassle you about those matters.  By the way, uppity Christian women in 170-220 AD often engaged in what you'd term astral exploration, even during church services.  The bishop of Rome excommunicated them for trying to lead men through their prophetic gifts.  So these women excommunicated the bishop of Rome and appointed women as leaders all over the Mediterranean world!  And these women defied the modest standards for Christian female attire and wore jewelry and make-up!  Their demise through persecution is the femle Alamo in the early church.  But these uppity women were just reactivating the leadership roles of women in the first century church. 

Ginny: "I kept lobbying for more camping and outdoor stuff!"

Our only problem with more "outdoor stuff" is the abundance of local cougars.  Actually, I want our scouts to camp out in a spooky part of the woods, so I can rent a Sasquatch costume and a tape of Sasquatch screaming and then use this to terrorize the kids by sneaking up on them in the middle of the night.  Our scoutmasters seem to like the idea.  They would run screaming at the distant Sasquatck sound and I would stagger towards the camp with my arms raised menacingly.  The scouts would long remember that awful Sasquatch minister!

Don

Good to see you too, Don Smiley.
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:10pm
 
Yes welcome back sis..nice to hear you; talk to you soon..
PUL
R.

PS..still remember the squeaky voice from harbor tapes..lol
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Re: F27's Park...A Monroe creation
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 3:30pm
 
Don,

I love every scouting organization, the Cubs, Brownies (are they still around?) Campfire Girls. I would've benefited from staying with the Girl Scouts longer, that I'm sure of, but I was a tomboy; so many trees to climb, so little time (lol). It's wonderful you and your church are keeping these important organizations alive. I wish the ACLU would leave them alone.

Thanks for the interesting info on the women of the early church, and I like your Sasquatch idea. Every child needs to grow up spending a lot of time in the outdoors, especially sitting around campfires and telling ghosts stories, being spooked.

You're a good guy, Don.

Much love,

Ginny
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